On Friday, January 3, 2003, at 02:55 AM, Tony LaFemina wrote:
(portions cut out)
> In order to correctly monitor a fluid level, there has to be some kind
> of system that can sense the height of the fluid in the cartridge.
> Otherwise it's purely guesswork. If they do have an accurate system
> that can monitor the ink level, then it shouldn't matter if the
> cartridge is removed from the printer or not. Once it's installed, it
> should send the printer accurate readings. But Bill said Epson advised
> against this, which tells me their system is based on time. When a
> cartridge is installed into the printer, an electronic pulse
> initializes the timer for each color. When a color is called upon, the
> timer for that color is started, and stopped when the cartridge stops
> emitting the color. Since they know how much ink is in a new
> cartridge, they know how much time it will take to empty it. However,
> if the cartridge is removed, the timers should reset when you put it
> back giving erroneous data. This method should always say there's more
> ink than there actually is. If the system says there's less or no ink
> in the cartridge, then I call it spitework and it verifies what I said
> about big business not caring about the environment.
>
If you read some of the earlier posts, this was explained, but I'll
repeat part of it again. Epson electrostatically charges the cartridge
when it is inserted. Removing the cartridge and then putting it back
wastes ink. Add to that the fact that in early OS-X, printers drivers
in general were iffy (for all manufacturers, not just for Epson), and
thus remaining ink levels on a re-inserted cartridge were not always
reported correctly and you get the advice that Epson that gives out.
The situation is vastly improved, and gets better with each update to
OS-X, but still is not completely worked out yet. For example if you
have certain new HP printers (which can give decent prints) then you
are better off using Gimp-print than the native HP drivers, because the
HP drivers still have bugs in them which cause them to take over most
of the cpu effectively disabling the computer (Still happens even in
10.2.3 Apple and HP are still working on it). The latest update to OS-X
went a long way to fixing this, but it is still happening to many
people.
Back onto the smart chips: all of the manufacturers use them in the new
printers. In the older ones they are not there. My guess is that they
will stay, but be changed to allow refilling.
Jerry
> If you guys think your Epsons are good printers, great. But I think
> you'll have a rough time convincing Bill of that, unless he resolved
> his problem. I imagine I'll eventually be in the same boat as all of
> you, but until then, I'll stick with my H-P without the
> smart-cartridges.
>
> Tony
>
> Jerry Yeager wrote:
>
>> Well see, there is some humor to be found! Glad you're amused.
>>
>> But I think you're missing the point(s). On the first one: Many state
>> and local governments are having to deal with the serious problems of
>> waste from electronic equipment. Banning it from landfills is one
>> option being considered (even here in Louisville, this problem is
>> getting serious attention, but don't take my word for it, ask around)
>> another option is to introduce means to reduce the rate the waste is
>> bering generated, hence the proposal to make the ink cartridges
>> refillable. The EU (European Union) is really holding HP's toes to
>> the fire on this one.
>>
>> On the second one: hmm before PageMaker was released by Aldus, the
>> only option the home folks (and many small businesses) had for
>> creating those wonderful masterfully done brochures was to hire a
>> graphics design firm. After it came out they didn't have to. The rest
>> is left as an exercise for the student... (smile)
>>
>> Jerry
>>
>>
>> On Thursday, January 2, 2003, at 04:45 PM, Tony LaFemina wrote:
>>
>>> Sorry Jerry, but this thread gets funnier with each e-mail. Let's
>>> say, for arguments sake, everything you guys said about the Epson
>>> printer and it's cartridges is true, and the government is going to
>>> crack down on electronic waste materials. It sounds like an anomaly
>>> to me. I can't imagine our government allowing millions of Americans
>>> to possible end up with full or partially full ink cartridges that
>>> can't be used or discarded, on the off chance they can or will
>>> produce near-commercial quality printed images from their home. From
>>> where I'm sitting, an empty cartridge contains much less waste than
>>> one with ink still in it. But that may be due to my warped sense of
>>> understanding.
>>>
>>> In addition to that, you mention the cost of tossing a sheet of
>>> high-quality paper. My brother once sent me a birthday card he made
>>> on his computer. He said he had to do it about a dozen times before
>>> it came out right. The thing is, he's not an exception to the rule.
>>> There's millions of us just like him. Hell! Even a pro has a
>>> difficult time getting everything set up right for success on the
>>> first try. How many novices are going to spend $10.00 or more on a
>>> homemade Christmas card when they could buy one for less than half
>>> the price? Now for the good part. What happens to all those sheets
>>> of paper (any quality), filled with ink, that ain't quite right? Do
>>> we just toss them in the garbage pail, or take them to some
>>> collection site for proper disposal? You can answer that question
>>> yourself.
>>>
>>> The way I look at it is, "It's a world gone mad."
>>>
>>> Tony
>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> Jerry Yeager wrote:
>>>
>>>> Well hmm, it is going to get more complicated in a short while I
>>>> suspect**, but not for these reasons.
>>>>
>>>> Nowadays, we use the ink jets to produce high resolution photos
>>>> that rival those the commercial photography shops produce (I am not
>>>> trying to step on anyone's toes here with these statements). Since
>>>> the paper and the ink is expensive, it is not really the same as
>>>> throwing out a half-printed page of text that costs about a nickel
>>>> to toss; these pages cost many dollars or more to throw out. So you
>>>> want to know before starting a job, if it will finish and finish
>>>> correctly. Hence the printer needs to be able to tell you what it
>>>> is up to. Thus the smart chip in the printer cartridge.
>>>>
>>>> The ink-jets have what are called smart chips in them to talk to
>>>> the computer drivers and tell them various things about how the
>>>> printer is doing. The printers by themselves are very in-expensive.
>>>> Selling the cartridges are the way the printer companies make money
>>>> (HP, Epson, all of them are in this. Those smart chips detect when
>>>> the cartridge has been refilled and will refuse to work, so the
>>>> user has to buy new ones. A few complete refills and you have paid
>>>> for a new printer. Really.
>>>>
>>>> Jerry
>>>>
>>>> ** It is going to get tricky soon due to environmental regulations
>>>> that are working to reduce electronic "waste" materials, such as
>>>> ink-jet cartridges. In Europe, it is (or soon will be) illegal to
>>>> have the smart chips disallow refills. That type of regulation may
>>>> soon be in California, then spread here.
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Wednesday, January 1, 2003, at 10:24 PM, Tony LaFemina wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Sorry I took so long to respond to this Jerry, but the more you
>>>>> guys tell me about Epson printers, the more baffling it gets. I
>>>>> don't know why anyone would be concerned about when the printer
>>>>> runs out of ink. The worst that could happen is a few sheets of
>>>>> paper have to be thrown out if the ink is used up before a run is
>>>>> completed. (At least that's what I'm thinking). But, I have a
>>>>> sneaking suspicion there's more to it than that.
>>>>>
>>>>> The thing that bothers me is, if what you say is true, then their
>>>>> system for determining fluid levels is probably based on time
>>>>> rather than actually measuring fluid levels. If that's the case,
>>>>> they'd do better to eliminate the system and reduce the price of
>>>>> their printers.
>>>>>
>>>>> Tony
>>>>>
>>>>> Jerry Yeager wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> You can take the cartridges out prematurely, but you generally
>>>>>> want to avoid doing that. Epson uses the electromechanical
>>>>>> approach to squeezing the ink out. So each time the cartridges
>>>>>> are replaced the new ones have to be electrostatic-ally charged.
>>>>>> This wastes ink. In addition, with the old versions of OS-X,
>>>>>> printer communications were, shall we say a bit tenuous, so
>>>>>> sometimes the printer would not report remaining ink levels
>>>>>> correctly (this tended to be true with most ink-jet printers),
>>>>>> which sometimes would make an old, used cartridge look full when
>>>>>> it was on its last legs.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Jerry
>>>>>>
>>>>>> p.s. If you were using this for photos, check into the 2200. It
>>>>>> is really good.
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On Saturday, December 28, 2002, at 09:44 PM, Tony LaFemina wrote:
>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Bill Rising wrote:
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> On 12/28/2002 1:09, Tony LaFemina wrote
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> [snip...]
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>> Have you tried replacing the cartridges?
>>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> I've wanted to avoid that, because epson makes all sorts of
>>>>>>>> dire warnings stating that taking a cartridge out makes it
>>>>>>>> unusable forever (even if it is still pretty full, as the ones
>>>>>>>> in my printer are). So... this'll be the very last step, after
>>>>>>>> I've tried everything else.
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>> Bill
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> Thanks for that bit of information Bill. I've only had 2 H-P
>>>>>>> printers, and am not used to that kind of stupidity. Are you
>>>>>>> allowed to at least wiggle them to maybe try to reseat them? I'm
>>>>>>> not familiar with Epson's setup, but couldn't there be a
>>>>>>> condition where the cartridges aren't seated properly? It sounds
>>>>>>> like these guys went out of their way to come up with that one.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> I wish you the best.
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>> --
>>>>>>> Tony LaFemina
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>
>>>
>
>
> --
> Tony LaFemina
> Major in Layout & Design Techniques
> Minor in Software Fundamentals
> http://hometown.aol.com/visitmacland/index.html
> mailto:remacs at optonline.net
>
>
>
>
>
> | The next meeting of the Louisville Computer Society will
> | be January 28. The LCS Web page is <http://www.kymac.org>.
>
>
>
| The next meeting of the Louisville Computer Society will
| be January 28. The LCS Web page is <http://www.kymac.org>.
