First I would like to apologizes for poorly describing the 1.8 status and for "lack of documentation". To me it seemed that 1.8 was being merged into 1.9 as it was no longer on the Roadmap, which I had been watching for quite some time now. All tickers were closed and it appeared done. I have seen this happen many times in Open Source software where version overlap to the point of non existence. I have been running 1.8 from day-0 of the RC2 and it has been flawless. I have no doubt in the framework...my hesitance is in the details of the new features. The project I'm working on is large and I really don't want to have the "Where was that last week?" feeling. But as Open Source I totally understand Mach-II's position. It can not go gold unless it is tested.
Second on the documentation at least to me Example Applications is what is truly missing. Working self contained examples would help with the learning curve of Mach-II. I had the privilege to inherit Mach-II 1.5 set up with 25 sub modules / applications which I used as reading material for my introduction into Mach-II. Having working code and the config file to walk yourself threw the events helps wrap your head around the framework easier than a perfectly worded doc. As far as definition of the framework and context the Mach-II team has been incredible for a small Open Source team but the real world use of the context plus the weight of the MVC framework can be too much. At times it seems a Hello World would do the trick. With that said the three screencast were great but sometimes you just want that .zip. Matt you are correct... short stabs of "You guys suck... where is the documentation?" helps no one. For me the code I was left to work with is the most frustrating and I want to replace it but I am having a problem of where to begin. Finally finding a place to vent was a relief poor execution. I apologizes for that. Also I had no ideal the Wiki was open. I commend Mach-II for opening this for the users. I honestly don't know of another group that would trust it's users that much. I will try my best to create a Sample application for what I'm calling iBranding. Basically a skinning engine to be applied to any tiered type application. On Feb 8, 12:54 pm, "Peter J. Farrell" <[email protected]> wrote: > Response inline below... > > neweller said the following on 08/02/10 10:22:> "we have frequently found > ourselves venting over > > the seeming lack of documentati > > I totally feel you pain. I have inherited a Mach-II 1.5 ecommerce site > > will multiple catalogs and customers all set up as modules with in one > > app. That being said my learning curve was very short and had to > > immediately start adding new modules. > > I encourage to share the knowledge you've gained by looking at other > things like the Dashboard to build your application. We're one of the > few software wikis that allow anonymous editing of the wiki entries. > Some other CFML frameworks don't have a wiki or allow public editing. > Let us know if you need help using the wiki or how to edit. If you are > unsure the technical aspects of something, we'd be happy to help edit > contributions to the wiki before you submit them. > > We're glad to help, however Mach-II is a community project in which most > of the development of the framework is *contributed* (as in unpaid) by > developers (such as Team Mach-II or the lengthy list of contributors we > listed in the 1.8 README). > > > As of 1.8 Simplicity RC2 I wanted to upgrade and take use of the new > > features such as HTML Helper to condense the site into one main app > > but this has been very frustrating. Basically I have resorted to > > reverse engineering the Dashboard 1.1.0 just to see some of these new > > features in use. > > Again, I encourage you to contribute to the wiki. In a PDF form, the > HTMLHelper documention is over 25 pages long -- which is lengthy for > component that has about 1200 lines of code in it. > > I think it's important to realize that open source project can only > fully become sustainably successful is for the community of people that > use it -- to contribute back to the project. There just is no way for a > small, unpaid team of people (myself, Matt, Kurt, Brian, Mike and > Adrian) have all the time to completely do everything required to build > a solid framework and that is a reason why we are trying to build up our > community. We can all help each other and that is one of the shining > points of open source. > > > Just as a side note it appears 1.8 has been left for dead and all > > attention has been moved to 1.9. I think 1.8 is actually gold just not > > released? I would like to commit to a version and get to learning of > > HTML Helper but should I forget 1.8 and go straight to 1.9? > > I would disagree here. The 1.8 RC2 went live on 12/27/2009 -- about six > weeks ago. During that time, we have fixed 15 issues -- mostly edge > case bug. BTW, I was on vacation during this time period, a few > holidays occurred (New Years) and I was traveling for business as well. > As you might know, Mach-II is committed to building as quality as a code > base as we can. So as you can see, having an adequate time for beta and > RC periods are essential to the process. If you are curious about the > issues we have fixed during the RC2 (15 to be exact), please take a peek > here: > > http://greatbiztoolsllc.trac.cvsdude.com/mach-ii/query?group=status&m... > > Lastly, some projects (like Spring) will have RC periods that last many > months. A six week period is a short RC in the terms of open source > software development. > > Another thing that is in the forefront of our mindset when developing > new versions of Mach-II is backwards compatibility (BC). I have talked > to people that have upgraded from Mach-II 1.0.10 (circa 2005) to Mach-II > 1.6 or 1.8 (circa 2009/2010) without any issues. Suffice it to say that > once a feature is introduced to Mach-II, it is there for the long haul. > The process of deprecating a feature is long and hard -- not something > we are interested in doing so a lot of time is spent on developing solid > features that will stand the test of time. In the end in your terms, > taking the time to learn the HTMLHelper in 1.8 doesn't mean it's going > to change in 1.9. The only thing that would change in 1.9 is the > *addition* of new features that expand the capabilities of the HTMLHelper.> > Once I get a better understanding of Mach-II I wouldn't mind helping > > the Mach-II Wiki. I think a basic example of HTML Helper that changes > > the layout / CSS / Javascript based on a user login would be a good > > example to see on the Wiki. > > Great, I think that would a great place to start with a contribution > with the wiki and definitely one that is needed. Just to clarify some > points, Mach-II is free and open source. Everybody on Team Mach-II > contributes their time for *free* and this is spare time mind you. I > apologize for the forthcoming rant... > > <rant> > > I would like to point out that according to the last COCOMO analysis (it > looks at commits / LoC / time to compute figures), the time spent > developing Mach-II is *13 (thirteen) full time man years*. If you were > to pay a developer $75,000/yr (with salary and benefits for an > architectural position -- it is average), the cost to develop Mach-II > from scratch would be about $975,000. COCOMO analysis does *not* > include time spent on sample applications, helping on the mailing lists > *or* writing documentation. Suffice it to say that a lot of effort has > gone into Mach-II in the past six years. > > </rant> > > If there is anything we can do to help, please feel free to ask us with > specific questions. Sometimes things on mailing lists get lost in > "translation". > > Best, > .Peter -- You received this message because you are subscribed to Mach-II for CFML list. To post to this group, send email to [email protected] To unsubscribe from this group, send email to [email protected] For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/mach-ii-for-coldfusion?hl=en SVN: http://greatbiztoolsllc.svn.cvsdude.com/mach-ii/ Wiki / Documentation / Tickets: http://greatbiztoolsllc.trac.cvsdude.com/mach-ii/
