On 2020-05-07, at 4:22 PM, Macs R We <macs...@macsrwe.com> wrote: > When you knock the power connector out and the battery exhausts itself, macOS > will cause the machine to hibernate when the battery gets below a certain > percentage, just so that it can keep the state alive like an internal battery > would have, until you power it up again. Of course, if you leave it in that > state for a few weeks, it will eventually drain, but most of the time that > doesn't happen.
So it wasn't even a real powerless test. Can't remove the battery on this one like I could on the old power PC. > >> On May 7, 2020, at 2:44 PM, Michael <keybou...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> >> On 2020-05-07, at 2:40 PM, Macs R We <macs...@macsrwe.com> wrote: >> >>> While this is true, even in the older systems a bad PRAM battery would >>> cause mischief only when the machine was disconnected from all other power >>> (for a laptop, that means adapterless and batteryless; for a desktop, that >>> means unplugged or shut off with the power button, not slept). Otherwise, >>> the Mac will always maintain power to those functions using the >>> non-internal-battery power source. Unless you have a desktop, and unless >>> you explicitly shut it down or have a home power failure, the PRAM battery >>> (where present) will never come into play. >> >> Actually, adapterless and batteryless was an issue recently. >> >> Kitty knocked the power cord out (magsafe does not mean it won't disconnect; >> it means the connector won't be damaged when it disconnects) and the battery >> drained. >> >> On the other hand, it did a full reboot after being reconnected, so ... >> >>> >>>> On May 7, 2020, at 2:17 PM, Karl Kuehn <kuehn.k...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Michael, >>>> I think you are misunderstanding what it going on with a bad PRAM >>>> battery. The time being off is a side-effect, not the proximate cause of >>>> the problems (restarts, etc). The problem is that the clock is not >>>> trustable (so not always going the right direction), along with the >>>> maintaining consistency with a number of firmware setting (think about >>>> mismatches between what hardware and software think is happening). There >>>> probably is also some issue with greying-out the power management hardware >>>> (which depends on that battery). >>>> >>>> I don’t know if there is a separate battery anymore (and never knew it >>>> for laptops), but I do know that people rarely knew to even look for >>>> problems with the batteries (Apple techs included), and so I was able to >>>> solve a few “unsolvable” issues with older hardware (way back when). >>>> >>>> — >>>> Karl Kuehn >>>> kuehn.k...@gmail.com >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>>> On May 7, 2020, at 1:47 PM, Macs R We <macs...@macsrwe.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Well, yes and no. >>>>> >>>>> It's true a system clock time being set badly can screw up the encryption >>>>> services, and that's one thing that a dead internal battery will cause. I >>>>> save installation packages for all past OSX systems, and to install them >>>>> I often have to set the system clock way back to be within their >>>>> certificates' (short) expiration dates. Sometimes I forget to set it >>>>> back, and start getting strange errors like "this website's certificate >>>>> is not yet valid" until I remember. But it doesn't cause panics. And you >>>>> would be able to figure out if that's a problem by just checking your >>>>> current system time. Since Apple started making all their laptops with >>>>> non-removable batteries, I don't think they even include a separate >>>>> internal battery anymore. >>>>> >>>>> If you are getting true panics, you must have panic dumps available >>>>> somewhere in the log area, and should be able to scan those. >>>>> >>>>> You should be able to examine your root certificates in Keychain Access; >>>>> the app should be able to help you identify an untrusted one. >>>>> >>>>> Another thing that can cause reboots is benign — having the installation >>>>> system set to install updates automatically, and some of these updates >>>>> require a reboot. Usually the symptom of this is that you wake up to find >>>>> yourself back at the login window. Still, the system logs would also >>>>> identify this as a reboot reason. >>>>> >>>>>> On May 7, 2020, at 11:57 AM, Michael <keybou...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hmm. "easy" enough to check, I just have to ... not ... use ... my >>>>>> computer ... for a weekend? ... >>>>>> >>>>>> Maybe a few days midweek. >>>>>> >>>>>> On 2020-05-07, at 11:55 AM, larkost <kuehn.k...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>>> I have no idea if this is the problem, but back when I was in the >>>>>>> troubleshooting Macs business one problem I ran into was the PRAM >>>>>>> battery (yes, wrong name, but...) going bad. It would cause all sorts >>>>>>> of mysterious problems until replaced. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The way of checking for this was to: >>>>>>> 1. On a Friday make sure that the system time was set. >>>>>>> 2. Disconnect the computer from all network connections, and unplug it >>>>>>> from power. >>>>>>> 3. Leave it over the weekend unplugged. >>>>>>> 4. If the time was wrong when you booted up on Monday, then you found >>>>>>> your problem. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Of course this was with desktops, And a number of years ago. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On May 7, 2020, at 11:39 AM, Michael <keybou...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> This is unhappy for me also; I have gotten two panics in just about a >>>>>>>> week. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Absolutely nothing odd recorded in the system log. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Meanwhile, on reboot, I see this message in the log: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> May 7 11:09:28 keybounceMBP apsd[141]: Failed to evaluate trust: No >>>>>>>> error. (0), result=5; retrying with revocation checking optional >>>>>>>> May 7 11:09:28 keybounceMBP apsd[141]: failed to evaluate trust: No >>>>>>>> error. (0), result=5; retrying with system roots >>>>>>>> May 7 11:09:28 keybounceMBP apsd[141]: Root certificate is not >>>>>>>> explicitly trusted >>>>>>>> May 7 11:09:28 keybounceMBP apsd[141]: Unrecognized leaf certificate >>>>>>>> May 7 11:09:30 keybounceMBP SecurityAgent[215]: User info context >>>>>>>> values set for >console >>>>>>>> May 7 11:09:30 keybounceMBP loginwindow[120]: Login Window - Returned >>>>>>>> from Security Agent >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> What would make "Failure to evaluate trust: no error"? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Would this be in any way related to some https web sites now refusing >>>>>>>> to work because the certificate chain cannot be verified (the website >>>>>>>> in question is just fine). >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> OS: 10.9.5. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> System crash reporter directory shows nothing. There's networking >>>>>>>> diags from just after the reboot. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> System diagnostics ... nothing new, but there was stuff from >>>>>>>> powerstats just after midnight. There's a LOT of powerstat information >>>>>>>> over time there. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> ... and a lot of wakeup and CPU dumps from firefox. Hmm. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 2020-05-07, at 8:33 AM, Chris Walker <ch...@mymac.org.uk> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Tried to find the last reboot which *I think* was between 09 & >>>>>>>>> 09:30am. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> All I could find in the system log was that it rebooted shortly after >>>>>>>>> 9:00 am with no specified reason. The other logs didn’t tell me >>>>>>>>> anything that I could understand but it may be that I have the time >>>>>>>>> wrong and am therefore looking in the wrong place. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I’m wondering if the best thing is to reinstall the system although >>>>>>>>> that may leave something in place that really shouldn't be there, but >>>>>>>>> until I can narrow the time down more accurately it’s a bit like >>>>>>>>> looking for a needle in a haystack. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 7 May 2020, at 11:26, Macs R We <macs...@macsrwe.com> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Look at System Information for your current uptime. Compute the time >>>>>>>>>> of your last reboot. Launch Console and look at the system log, the >>>>>>>>>> Diagnostic Reports folders (2), and the CrashReporter folder to see >>>>>>>>>> what macOS claimed was the reason for the reboot. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On May 7, 2020, at 1:21 AM, Chris Walker <ch...@mymac.org.uk> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Hi all: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> I keep getting random restarts. Whilst I’m away from the machine >>>>>>>>>>> it will perform a restart for no reason I can determine. I have >>>>>>>>>>> had problems with the power prefs not sticking but that appears to >>>>>>>>>>> have been solved. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The machine feels warm but not unduly, so I don’t think it’s >>>>>>>>>>> temperature related. I’ve scanned for malware using ClamXAV which >>>>>>>>>>> found nothing and a recent Apple Diagnostic found no problems. I >>>>>>>>>>> have an LG 24” 4K display connected via Thunderbolt. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Gatekeeper and XProtect are up to date. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Anyone any ideas as to the cause or possible solutions? >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Mac Mini 2018, 3.2Ghz core i7; 32Gb Ram, MacOS 10.14.6 >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Chris >>>>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>>>> MacOSX-talk mailing list >>>>>>>>>>> MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com >>>>>>>>>>> https://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>>> MacOSX-talk mailing list >>>>>>>>> MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com >>>>>>>>> https://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>> This message was composed with the aid of a laptop cat, and no mouse >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>>>> MacOSX-talk mailing list >>>>>>>> MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com >>>>>>>> https://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk >>>>>> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> Entertaining minecraft videos >>>>>> http://YouTube.com/keybounce >>>>>> >>>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>>> MacOSX-talk mailing list >>>>>> MacOSX-talk@omnigroup.com >>>>>> https://www.omnigroup.com/mailman/listinfo/macosx-talk >>>>> >>>> >>> >> >> --- >> Entertaining minecraft videos >> http://YouTube.com/keybounce >> --- Entertaining minecraft videos http://YouTube.com/keybounce
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