So, if im correct, The upgrade to 8.1 (if i do it) will be a one way trip? Is there any way to downgrade back to 7.1.2?
Sent from my iPhone > On 26-Oct-2014, at 7:10 am, Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net> wrote: > > oh sure it does far more than generalizations and projective stereotyping. > > >> On Sat, 25 Oct 2014, Cheree Heppe wrote: >> >> Situational thinking doesn't build bridges. >> >> Sent from my IPhone 4S >> >> On 25 Oct 2014, at 15:50, Karen Lewellen <klewel...@shellworld.net> wrote: >> >> Perhaps the problem begins by assuming that there is such a thing as "the >> blind," uniformly using choosing and personifying a single individual. >> There will be people who find the upgrade very wonderful for them, there >> will be, are clearly, individuals who do not. >> that has zero to do with blindness and 100% to do with individuality. A >> fine thing thank you very much, its what makes us human and uniquely >> interesting at a party. >> I have a slightly silly but very sincere question...perhaps best addressed >> to Sir. Tim off list. >> Consider it to be rhetorical. >> If you have a device that meets most of our needs, allowing you to compute >> as you desire, why would you decide to upgrade to something that might not >> meet your needs in the same way? and without being sure in advance you will >> not lose ground? Especially since, as I understand it, downgrades are well >> rather a challenge? >> I am forthright about my alternative dictionary. still because I prefer a >> steady reliable and firm tool...say like a hammer or screwdriver, I do not >> personally decide I need to change my entire computer foundation unless >> there are things I can no longer do with that foundation. >> Speaking only for myself, which frankly goes for humans in general, I find >> this a more practical way to keep things on target professionally. >> The so called the blind should take what they are handed concept refers to a >> nonexistent hypothetical entity that is totally interchangeable...at last >> count having 400 million pairs of feet. if that does not sound like you, >> make your own computer choices. >> Just my far from the insider take, >> Kare >> >> >>> On Sat, 25 Oct 2014, Cheree Heppe wrote: >>> >>> What happens if we can't use more and more while sending fix requests? >>> Didn't someone say a while back that the blind aren't a buying majority and >>> should gratefully accept what we are handed? >>> >>> Sent from my IPhone 4S >>> >>> On 25 Oct 2014, at 15:03, Shawn Krasniuk <bbssh...@icloud.com> wrote: >>> >>> Hi. Well said Tim. Nothing good will come if we're not reasonable. For >>> example, when I received the first public beta of Yosemite, for some reason >>> Text Edit wouldn't open any files ending with the .docx extension. I >>> immediately launched the Feedback Assistant app and reported this bug to >>> Apple. Another bug that was present in the beta, and I don't know if it's >>> still present today, is when clicking the lock to make changes in the >>> security tab to allow apps to open that haven't been downloaded from the >>> App Store, my choice was ignored after the fact I made the change. If that >>> bug is still present today, I won't be sitting here moaning to you guys >>> that it's still present and basically bashing Apple because let's face it, >>> that would be a waste of mine and your time, and might make some people >>> laugh or maybe angry. Instead, I'll be sending an email to Apple or if we >>> can still use it even though this isn't a beta, I'll use the Feedback >>> Assistant to report the bug. >>> Another point that Tim made is about Apple's commitment to accessibility. I >>> don't think that it has slid at all. In my 4 years that I've used Apple >>> products, (4 years on November 3rd), I find accessibility about the same or >>> a bit better. First I bought this MacBook, then the iPod Nanno, then the >>> iTouch 4, the iPhone 4, 4S, and now 5S. All these devices have done pretty >>> much all I've wanted them to do. And guess what. My next computer if this >>> white MacBook goes down the crapper or if Yosemite will be the last >>> operating system I can upgrade to will probably be a MacBook Air because I >>> know Apple products can get what I need to be accomplished done. And also >>> like I said in a previous thread, PC's and I don't get along. :) >>> >>> Shawn >>> Sent From My White MacBook >>> >>>> On Oct 25, 2014, at 2:03 PM, Pamela Francis <gypsykitt...@gmail.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Tim, >>>> Your position is fair. I don't disagree, other thanThe complaints being >>>> registered within bothIOS and Yosemite concern the apps that are shipped >>>> on each respective product. Do we not have reasonable expectation for >>>> the same accessibility for the stock apps included within Apple OS be it >>>> OS 10 or iOS eight? That's my only question. Thanks much >>>> >>>> Pam Francis >>>> >>>> On Oct 25, 2014, at 1:19 PM, Tim Kilburn <kilbu...@me.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Cheri and All, >>>> >>>> In my opinion, you have made some inaccurate assertions here. The quality >>>> of the voices that you’ve expressed is likely due to your iDevice >>>> defaulting back to the low quality, non-enhanced version of the voices. >>>> Normal behaviour during the update process. If you download the enhanced >>>> version of your preferred voice, you’ll find the quality is as good or >>>> better than it was in iOS 7. The download can be achieved in the >>>> Settings, General Accessibility, VoiceOver under the Speech section. >>>> Switching between voices is the same as it was in iOS 7 when your Language >>>> preferences are included in the Rotor, which is also configured in the >>>> same area outlined earlier. Regarding the descriptions of Wallpaper etc, >>>> I didn’t notice this and it is disappointing from an accessibility point >>>> of view. >>>> >>>> Regarding yours and others opinions on Apple’s commitment to >>>> accessibility, over-exaggeration and inaccurate accusations or assumptions >>>> usually don’t go very far. For example, I had a co-worker that used to >>>> put in Work Orders to our Maintenance department saying that it was so >>>> cold in the room that things were freezing to the floor and other >>>> surfaces. Maintenance came over right away and determined that it was a >>>> few degrees colder than she liked. In future Work Orders, she was not >>>> given near the priority attention that she originally received due to her >>>> tendency for over-blowing a situation. While our desires for >>>> accessibility to be perfect and to never get broken in an update is fair, >>>> it’s not likely going to be realized in all cases. Any OS, be it iOS, >>>> MacOS, Chrome-OS or even Windows is a complex, interdependent interaction >>>> between processes. Sometimes the fixing of one factor breaks another. >>>> Sometimes it takes a bit of work by the software engineers to figure out >>>> how to make certain things work properly together. Even with beta-testers >>>> galore, not every glitch is found out prior to release. This sort of >>>> thing happens whether it’s an accessibility feature or just a regular part >>>> of the user experience. >>>> >>>> For example, tearing into Apple about them changing the look and feel of >>>> iTunes and claiming that they have broken accessibility is an inaccurate >>>> statement. The actual accessibility of iTunes hasn’t changed at all, what >>>> has changed is how we access the various features. How easy it is for you >>>> to manage the changes is not a factor of accessibility, it may be a level >>>> of comfort or ease of use factor, but accessibility in the manner that VO >>>> users use the term has to do with elements being visible and/or usable. >>>> The device accessibility market is by no means particularly mature at this >>>> point in time, so, I’d venture to say that any device we put in our hands >>>> will have good and bad with respect to accessibility. Android this, >>>> Windows that, Apple thing-a-ma-bobber and whoever’s talking >>>> which-a-macall-it all work to some respect but have limitations and/or >>>> frustrations. No point in dissing Apple, Google or windows for that >>>> matter, it’s unproductive. >>>> >>>> So, after all this, I guess what I’m saying is continue submitting bug >>>> reports and feature requests, and, expect for them to be addressed but be >>>> reasonable. >>>> bug reports should be clear, expressing the facts of the issue, outlining >>>> how and where it occurs, certainly they can include how it affects your >>>> productivity but exaggeration and accusation need not be a part. Progress >>>> is occurring, will continue to occur and is necessary. >>>> >>>> That’s my rant for the week. Have a good day all. >>>> >>>> Later… >>>> >>>> Tim Kilburn >>>> Fort McMurray, AB Canada >>>> >>>>> On Oct 25, 2014, at 9:19 AM, Cheree Heppe <che...@dogsc4me.com> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Cheree Heppe here: >>>>> Even with the problems listed over a wide range of applications, I >>>>> updated one of my iOS devices last night. If what I am learning about >>>>> 8.1 is symptomatic, I think blind users can kiss good Apple access >>>>> good-bye. >>>>> One area: I remember getting my first iPhone and, in extreme skepticism >>>>> and with the half-done, JAWS and PC based accessibility as a precursor >>>>> experience, decided to find out whether the Wallpapers section gave >>>>> access, or merely lip service to Universal Design. >>>>> How amazed and delight I felt when each photo featured an artistic and >>>>> pleasing description of the photo. The description didnt just say photo >>>>> dot png or stick in woods dot whatever, these descriptions went that >>>>> extra step that separates accessibility wannabees from practitioners of >>>>> Universal Design. >>>>> In 8.1, I opened the Brightness and Wallpapers section on my iPad 2. >>>>> Every photo gave those hald done, cursury, non-descriptive labels >>>>> characterized by no info, ugly word choice to mirror the photo and the >>>>> png ending, just to make sure anybody who cant see the png knows this >>>>> isnt for them. >>>>> It is my intention to cancel my order for an upgraded iPhone 6 and not to >>>>> upgrade to iOS 8 point anything. >>>>> The voices on iOS 8 point whatever sound modified. They sound artificial >>>>> and there is no longer the ease of switching between voices. Switching >>>>> between voices has now become a secret process, or, at least, unavailable >>>>> to me, a blind user. >>>>> My thoughts, but, I am leaning toward making a change before the whole >>>>> archology goes south. >>>>> >>>>> Sad and very disappointed. Aple has had access to some really >>>>> discerning, brilliant blind users who could give really cogent advice in >>>>> the best user mode. I guess that isnt who is being listened to. >>>>> >>>>> Careless, sloppy, inattention to detail. Disregard for user specific >>>>> needs. >>>>> >>>>> Very sad. >>>>> >>>>> Bye-bye. >>>>> >>>>> Regards, >>>>> Cheree Heppe >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my IPhone 4S >>>>> >>>>> On 25 Oct 2014, at 1:26, venky...@gmail.com wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Its disappointing to know that the issues are not fixed in 8.1. >>>>> Thanks. >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On 23-Oct-2014, at 4:34 am, Jessica Moss <junglebookfa...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I had those same issues with my 4S, which I unfortunately didn't realize >>>>>> I was going to before I updated it, due to the fact that it's an older >>>>>> phone, and actually had no idea you could downgrade again, so you did >>>>>> the right thing doing that, sense you were going to have a rough time of >>>>>> it unless you plan on upgrading your phone any time soon. >>>>>>> On Oct 22, 2014, at 1:31 AM, Venkatesh Potluri <venky...@gmail.com> >>>>>>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Hi list, >>>>>>> I am using a 16GB iPhone 4S. I updated to iOs 8 and had a lot of >>>>>>> issues so had to downgrade back to 7.1. My phone got a lot slower, >>>>>>> apps like whatsapp and messenger kept constantly crashing and VO >>>>>>> randomly restarts it self. i had many accidental touches, accidental >>>>>>> calls, etc. I wish to know if these issues have been resolved in 8.1. >>>>>>> Another major reason for me wanting to upgrade is the Flecksy >>>>>>> keyboard. How good is it? I read that there are still problems using >>>>>>> it. are there any show stopper bugs? Is the Looktel money reader >>>>>>> working fine in 8.1? >>>>>>> Thank you. >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Venkatesh Potluri >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> Visit this group at 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received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > 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