Whoa, now that’s interesting. I worked in music production as well and boy do I wish I knew about outspoken then.
I always wanted to take that program at Berkeley School of Music but I was way to much of a slacker to get in to a good program like that haha. I did however learn the Synclavier but I used more the keyboard interface and the discrete buttons on the front panel instead of the Mac 2FX computer it was integrated with. I also used the Fairlight CMI heavily because it was so keyboard (alphanumeric keyboard) driven with very well laid out pages and command sequences easily referenced. I worked for a time with the folks at Wave Frame and staged the hardware and shipped out the configuration for a former member of Genesis who I knew from my time on the Fairlight platform. I didn’t get to go to London to Reel World unfortunately for the installation but I’d been there previously for a demonstration of a CMI III. I also specialized in the SSL mixing console for another blast from the past. Boy I wish I still had one. I used a 6000E and series G later. Wow the British and Australians made good gear. That’s not to say the folks in White River Junction Vermont (later Lebanon New Hampshire) didn’t know what they were doing but I always found the synclavier more complicated to use than the CMI. Are you still working in the music space? I envy you if you do. I was always a much better technologist than music guy though. I actually wish I had some level of skill other than getting the faders set right and the right push with the perimetric EQ but there you go. DBX compressor anyone? > On Jul 12, 2016, at 10:38 PM, Katie Zodrow <kzodrow...@att.net> wrote: > > Hi Donna and Scott. I thought I would chime in too. > > Yes, you're right about Apple starting accessibility over 30 years ago, even > before we had voiceover and the mac. It sounds like my experience is somewhat > similar to yours, even though I was born a few years later and I started > using computers and technology at an earlier age. My dad was more of a > computer and tech guy too, but both my parents used the computer often at > home and at work. > > I grew up during the 1980s and 90s. I have an older sister so I was the > youngest and the only blind person in my family. I was born in Ohio 3 months > premature and have been blind since birth. My family moved to the Chicago > suburbs when I was 2, which is where I grew up. I lived in that area for 18 > years until I was 20. My family has always been very encouraging and > supportive. They wanted to give me the best education possible, so I was > mainstreamed in public schools from age 3 to high school. The elementary > school I attended was a few miles away in another city from where we lived, > but they had a great Special Ed program with a resource room for all the kids > with blindness and other disabilities. I would go there if I wasn’t with the > regular classroom teacher during part of the day like for Reading or Math. > The vision teacher in my resource room and the rest of the staff at the > school were all great! Besides my parents helping me learn and encouraging me > to be independent, The school provided all the extra services I needed back > then like reading Braille, O and M skills, and basic daily living skills. I > still use braille often, and that skill along with the others are very > important for employment and being independent. In middle and high school, I > worked with an itinerant teacher for an hour and was in regular classes with > the sighted students the rest of the day. > > one of the first computers I used in elementary school was the Apple II E > with that robotic sounding Echo speech synthesizer. The Alex voice and > synthesized speech have come a long way since then!! :-) I remember when I > was about four and five years old and pressing different keys on the Apple 2 > keyboard. I thought it was really cool how the Echo synthesizer would > pronounce everything, and that you could change the speech rate and pitch of > the voice. It would always sound really funny talking in a really high or > low pitch! > > When I was in first grade, my parents bought an Apple II GS computer. my > sister and I used to play a lot of games on it and some of them had speech > using the Echo synthesizer so I could play them myself. I remember using the > old word processing programs too like Braille Edit and another one called > ProWord ProBraille in middle and high school. Everything was all on 3.5 inch > floppy disc back then, or they were on those bigger 5 and 1/4 inch diskettes. > During most of my elementary school years, my mom worked at a high school in > a resource room. She worked as a teacher assistant to the main resource > teacher preparing materials in Braille for the blind and visually impaired > students. When she would put handouts and other information in Braille for me > or the high school students, she would normally use either BrailleEdit or > another program called Bex. I remember my mom taught me how to use the > BrailleEdit software for word processing. You had to use three different 5.25 > inch disks just to use the program, and they had to be used in a certain > order so the program could work correctly. We had the Apple II GS computer > until my junior year of high school. I got a desktop PC with Windows 98 and > JAWS after that. My parents wanted me to get my own computer before I started > college. > > I used a Mac computer for the first time in the summer of 2000 after my first > semester of college and learned outSPOKEN. I attended Berklee College of > Music in Boston from 2000 to 2004, and almost everyone was using the Mac OS. > For a couple of my music tech classes, I used outSPOKEN when I was learning > Digital Performer and ProTools. I still used the Windows platform most of the > time from 1998 until 2013, then I decided to switch back over to the Mac. I > had worked in a couple call centers as a telephone reservations sales agent > for 6 years, and wanted to get back into the entertainment industry doing > audio production work and music again. I majored in Music Production and > Engineering in college, and wanted to get back into a career I enjoy and am > passionate about . Now, I do just about everything with the Mac and my > iPhone. I received the new VarioUltra braille display earlier this year, and > use that device with the iphone or when I’m at work and don’t want to use > speech. > > I can’t believe how far we’ve come with technology since the 1980’s! Back > then, everything was so huge and bulky 30 years ago. Now the size of > everything has drastically shrunk down and gotten much smaller. It will be > interesting to see what technology changes happen during the next 30 to 40 > years. >> Katie > >> On Jul 12, 2016, at 5:39 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland >> <clgillan...@gmail.com> wrote: >> >> Wut? "Stupid sighted people"? That's a little harsh, don'tcha think? LOL! >> Smile. >> --- >> It's all good, just am sayin'. >> >> Christopher Gilland >> JAWS Certified, 2016. >> Training Instructor. >> >> clgillan...@gmail.com >> Phone: (704) 256-8010. >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terje Strømberg" >> <terjestrmb...@gmail.com> >> To: "Mac Group" <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> >> Cc: "Terje Strømberg" <terjestrmb...@gmail.com> >> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 3:56 AM >> Subject: Re: This blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at >> only 22 >> >> >> >> >> Take care >> >> Great article. So many stupid sighted people around. >> >> >>> 12. jul. 2016 kl. 08.19 skrev Anne Robertson <a...@anarchie.org.uk>: >>> >>> I grew up in England and between the ages of 7 and 17, attended schools for >>> the blind where maths was taught, but the only science was biology, which >>> didn’t interest me at the time. I would have preferred to learn physics. >>> I finished my secondary education in a mainstream school and specialised in >>> languages. I studied French at university, but then I went into computer >>> programming. >>> The tool that allowed me to work on an equal footing with my sighted >>> colleagues was the optacon. I was able to read the terminal screen and >>> printout. I programmed the Apple ii in hexadecimal and read all the manuals >>> using the optacon. >>> I didn’t use speech on a computer until we got a Mac, a 2SI, during the 90s >>> and I purchased OutSpoken. >>> It never occurred to me that I might not be able to get a job as a blind >>> person once the optacon became available to me. >>> >>> Cheers, >>> >>> Anne >>> >>> >>> >>>> On 12 Jul 2016, at 05:15, Donna Goodin <doniado...@me.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hey Scott, >>>> >>>> First let me say that on a very fundamental level I agree with your post. >>>> But ... >>>> >>>> As a kid, I somehow sort of absorbed the fact that because I was blind, >>>> math and the sciences weren't for me. And this despite the fact that my >>>> dad was a computer guy, who spent lots of time and energy conveying to me >>>> how important tech would be for me.. Some of my earliest memories are of >>>> him bringing home those old computer punch cards and magnetic tapes for my >>>> brother and me to play with. I remember going with him into the office on >>>> Saturdays and seeing the computer, which was this great big behemoth that >>>> took up an entire room. I remember him teaching me base 2 at the dinner >>>> table. But once I got to school, my math and science teachers had no idea >>>> what to do with me. Classes were taught almost exclusively on the >>>> blackboard, and I was bored out of my mind. I grew up thinking I sucked >>>> at math, and it wasn't until I was in my thirties that I realized that I >>>> was actually pretty bloody good at it. Back in the 80s, I went out with >>>> this total computer geek. I was fascinated by all the stuff he was into, >>>> but neither he nor I knew how to make all that accessible to me. (And by >>>> that time, I actually owned a TSI Versabraille). I think that had I been >>>> born within the last 25 years, I actually would have chosen IT--or >>>> something related--as a career. Clearly something was different for you >>>> and John. Maybe it was innate intelligence, maybe there was a gender bias >>>> at play, maybe it was opportunity, I don't know. I do know from other >>>> posts I've seen from you that your parents seemed quite willing to think >>>> out of the box. I grew up in suburbia. My mom was 20 when she had me, my >>>> dad was 22. Having a blind kid pretty much rocked their young, limited >>>> world. I don't think my experience is unique. Whatever it was that jived >>>> for you guys, didn't carry over to lots of blind folks. >>>> >>>> So yes, it was a fluff piece. And yes, I wish they'd just treat blind >>>> folks like everyone else. But I also hope that there's a little Donna out >>>> there somewhere--or maybe little Donna's parents--who don't buy into those >>>> preconceived notions about what someone who's blind can or cannot do, and >>>> that someday 20 years from now, that little Donna finds herself at the >>>> heart of technological developments. >>>> >>>> Just an alternate perspective. >>>> Cheers, >>>> Donna >>>> >>>>> On Jul 11, 2016, at 9:32 PM, Scott Granados <sc...@qualityip.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> So here’s my problem with the article. >>>>> >>>>> I think it’s fantastic what this young lady is doing, I absolutely >>>>> support her efforts. I also am thrilled that apple hired someone from >>>>> our community for the design side. I’m also happy Google does the same >>>>> now and there’s discussion of teaching children to code. >>>>> >>>>> My problem is with the reporter. These articles are so damn fluff happy. >>>>> Look at Apple saving the day for blind people. Like it’s something new. >>>>> Never mind you John and I built parts of the networks this reporter >>>>> publishes on.:) The article leads the reader to believe that blind >>>>> people could only code until recently. This blind guy as a child started >>>>> coding 33+ years ago learning things like 6502 assembler, Apple Soft, >>>>> PASCAL, then C and so forth. We used apples or PCs or what ever to get it >>>>> done and in some ways have been directly or indirectly involved with the >>>>> development of computers since the very beginning. Real trail blazers >>>>> like your self or Ray Kurzweil building devices to help his child, >>>>> certain musicians with very deep pockets who brought some of the funding >>>>> to the table, any blind person at all who successfully landed a job and >>>>> held it showing others in our own little way we’re just people doing the >>>>> same things that everyone else does, try to help take care of your >>>>> selves, families and participate in our communities. >>>>> I guess part of me just wishes that instead of being singled out and made >>>>> to be some sort of something special we were just dealt with and >>>>> reflected on by reporters especially as just another part of society. >>>>> Lest I get way to NFB here:) but there’s something to be said for being >>>>> lumped in with everyone else.:) The special attention sometimes makes us >>>>> seem well special in the sense we’re not the norm, we’re almost >>>>> untouchable and separate to make a reference to a really unfortunate >>>>> cultural label in eastern societies. >>>>> The same thing happens with reporters who publish puff pieces on >>>>> artificial vision advances or medical advances that cure illnesses >>>>> related to blindness. I don’t know how many articles I’ve read where >>>>> some gadget is going to save us from our selves and totally make it all >>>>> better. Things ain’t that bad. What’s bad is convincing the public we >>>>> need to be saved. >>>>> Maybe I’m just becoming a grumpy old man like I was afraid of when I was >>>>> young. >>>>> >>>>> Still, congratulations to this young lady but also congratulations to all >>>>> the other engineers at apple some of which are on this list. And >>>>> congratulations to you John and others who have made countless >>>>> contributions to technology in general. >>>>> >>>>> Ah well, what’s the expression, there’s no such thing as bad publicity? >>>>> Suppose that’s true. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>>> On Jul 11, 2016, at 2:29 PM, Jonathan C. Cohn <jon.c.c...@gmail.com> >>>>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Well, this is interesting story. I don't believe they mention anything >>>>>> about braille. But at least it shows there are people at Apple working >>>>>> on accessibility. >>>>>> http://mashable.com/2016/07/10/apple-innovation-blind-engineer/#RihiKu145Oqr >>>>>> >>>>>> This blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at only 22 >>>>>> >>>>>> Apple engineer Jordyn Castor has never been one for limitations. >>>>>> >>>>>> She was born 15 weeks early, weighing just under two pounds. Her >>>>>> grandfather could hold her in the palm of his hand, and could even slide >>>>>> his wedding ring along her arm and over her shoulder. Doctors said she >>>>>> had a slim chance of survival. >>>>>> >>>>>> It was Castor's first brush with limited expectations — and also the >>>>>> first time she shattered them. >>>>>> >>>>>> Castor, now 22, has been blind since birth, a result of her early >>>>>> delivery. But throughout childhood, her parents encouraged her to defy >>>>>> expectations of people with disabilities, motivating her to be >>>>>> adventurous, hands-on and insatiably curious. >>>>>> >>>>>> It was that spirit that led to her interact with technology, whether it >>>>>> was the desktop computer her family bought when she was in second grade, >>>>>> or the classroom computer teachers encouraged her to use in school. >>>>>> >>>>>> "I could help make technology more accessible for blind users." >>>>>> She says the adults in her life would often hand her a gadget, telling >>>>>> her to figure it out and show them how to use it. And she would. >>>>>> >>>>>> "I realized then I could code on the computer to have it fulfill the >>>>>> tasks I wanted it to," says Castor, whose current work focuses on >>>>>> enhancing features like VoiceOver for blind Apple users. "I came to >>>>>> realize that with my knowledge of computers and technology, I could help >>>>>> change the world for people with disabilities. >>>>>> >>>>>> "I could help make technology more accessible for blind users." >>>>>> >>>>>> Bringing a personal perspective to Apple innovation >>>>>> >>>>>> There's an often overlooked component of "diversity" in workplace >>>>>> initiatives — the need to include the perspectives of people with >>>>>> disabilities. >>>>>> >>>>>> Keeping tabs on the needs of the blind and low-vision community is a key >>>>>> component of Apple's innovation in accessibility. Castor is proof of how >>>>>> much that can strengthen a company. >>>>>> >>>>>> She was a college student at Michigan State University when she was >>>>>> first introduced to Apple at a Minneapolis job fair in 2015. Castor went >>>>>> to the gathering of employers, already knowing the tech giant would be >>>>>> there — and she was nervous. >>>>>> >>>>>> "You aren't going to know unless you try," she thought. "You aren't >>>>>> going to know unless you talk to them ... so go." >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Apple engineer Jordyn Castor poses for a headshot. Castor is a driving >>>>>> force behind accessibility of Apple products, especially for blind users. >>>>>> >>>>>> Image: Provided by Apple and Jordyn Castor >>>>>> >>>>>> Castor told Apple reps how amazed she was by the iPad she received as a >>>>>> gift for her 17th birthday just a few years earlier. It raised her >>>>>> passion for tech to another level — mainly due to the iPad's immediate >>>>>> accessibility. >>>>>> >>>>>> "Everything just worked and was accessible just right out of the box," >>>>>> Castor tells Mashable. "That was something I had never experienced >>>>>> before." >>>>>> >>>>>> "I'm directly impacting the lives of the blind community." >>>>>> Sarah Herrlinger, senior manager for global accessibility policy and >>>>>> initiatives at Apple, says a notable part of the company's steps toward >>>>>> accessibility is its dedication to making inclusivity features standard, >>>>>> not specialized. This allows those features to be dually accessible — >>>>>> both for getting the tech to more users, as well as keeping down costs. >>>>>> >>>>>> "[These features] show up on your device, regardless of if you are >>>>>> someone who needs them," Herrlinger tells Mashable. "By being built-in, >>>>>> they are also free. Historically, for the blind and visually impaired >>>>>> community, there are additional things you have to buy or things that >>>>>> you have to do to be able to use technology." >>>>>> >>>>>> At that job fair in 2015, Castor's passion for accessibility and Apple >>>>>> was evident. She was soon hired as an intern focusing on VoiceOver >>>>>> accessibility. >>>>>> >>>>>> As her internship came to a close, Castor's skills as an engineer and >>>>>> advocate for tech accessibility were too commanding to let go. She was >>>>>> hired full-time as an engineer on the accessibility design and quality >>>>>> team — a group of people Castor describes as "passionate" and >>>>>> "dedicated." >>>>>> >>>>>> "I'm directly impacting the lives of the blind community," she says of >>>>>> her work. "It's incredible." >>>>>> >>>>>> Innovation with blind users in mind >>>>>> >>>>>> Increased accessibility for all users is one of Apple's driving values, >>>>>> under the mantra "inclusion inspires innovation." >>>>>> >>>>>> Herrlinger says the company loves what it makes, and wants what it makes >>>>>> to be available to everyone. She describes the need to continuously >>>>>> innovate with accessibility in mind as part of Apple's DNA. >>>>>> >>>>>> "Accessibility is something that is never-ending," Herrlinger says. "It >>>>>> isn't something where you just do it once, check that box and then move >>>>>> on to do other things." >>>>>> >>>>>> And it's a dedication that isn't going unnoticed by the blind community. >>>>>> On July 4, Apple was the recipient of the American Council of the >>>>>> Blind's Robert S. Bray Award for the company's strides in accessibility >>>>>> and continued dedication to inclusion-based innovation for blind users. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Sarah Herrlinger, senior manager for global accessibility policy and >>>>>> initiatives at Apple, and Eric Bridges, executive director of the >>>>>> American Council of the Blind (ACB), pose with the Robert S. Bray award >>>>>> at ACB's national conference on July 4, 2016. >>>>>> >>>>>> Image: PRovided by Apple and ACB >>>>>> >>>>>> The company, for example, made the first touchscreen device accessible >>>>>> to the blind via VoiceOver. Recent announcements of Siri coming to Mac >>>>>> this fall, and of newer innovations, like a magnifying glass feature for >>>>>> low-vision users, have continued the promise of improving the Apple >>>>>> experience for those who are blind and low vision. >>>>>> >>>>>> "The fact that we take the time to innovate in these ways is something >>>>>> new and different," Herrlinger says. "It was not the expected thing in >>>>>> the tech community." >>>>>> >>>>>> "[Accessibility] isn't something where you just do it once, check that >>>>>> box and then move on to do other things." >>>>>> Often, the success of such innovations depends on the input of the >>>>>> community — and employees like Castor provide irreplaceable first-hand >>>>>> insight into the tech experience for blind individuals. >>>>>> >>>>>> The most recent example of community-driven innovation can be found on >>>>>> the Apple Watch. During a meeting, Herrlinger explains, a person who >>>>>> sees could easily peer down at their watch to keep an eye on the clock. >>>>>> A person who is blind, however, hasn't had a way to tell time without >>>>>> VoiceOver. >>>>>> >>>>>> After confronting the conundrum, Apple solved the issue by making a >>>>>> feature that tells time through vibrations. The addition, Herrlinger >>>>>> says, is coming to watchOS 3 this fall. >>>>>> >>>>>> High-tech meets low-tech >>>>>> >>>>>> Castor says her own success — and her career — hinges on two things: >>>>>> technology and Braille. That may sound strange to many people, even to >>>>>> some who are blind and visually impaired. Braille and new tech are often >>>>>> depicted as at odds with one another, with Braille literacy rates >>>>>> decreasing as the presence of tech increases. >>>>>> >>>>>> But many activists argue that Braille literacy is the key to employment >>>>>> and stable livelihood for blind individuals. With more than 70% of blind >>>>>> people lacking employment, the majority of those who are employed — an >>>>>> estimated 80% — have something in common: They read Braille. >>>>>> >>>>>> "Braille allows me to know what the code feels like." >>>>>> For Castor, Braille is crucial to her innovative work at Apple — and she >>>>>> insists tech is complementary to Braille, not a replacement. >>>>>> >>>>>> "I use a Braille display every time I write a piece of code," she says. >>>>>> "Braille allows me to know what the code feels like." >>>>>> >>>>>> In coding, she uses a combination of Nemeth Braille — or "math Braille" >>>>>> — and Alphabetic Braille. Castor even says that with the heavy presence >>>>>> of tech in her life, she still prefers to read meeting agendas in >>>>>> Braille. >>>>>> >>>>>> "I can see grammar. I can see punctuation. I can see how things are >>>>>> spelled and how things are written out," she says. >>>>>> >>>>>> The technologies that Apple creates support her love of Braille, too — >>>>>> there are various modifications, like Braille displays that can to plug >>>>>> into devices, to help her code and communicate. But Castor also often >>>>>> forgoes Braille displays, solely using VoiceOver to navigate her devices >>>>>> and read screens. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> A Braille display like this one, which is compatible with Apple >>>>>> products, allows blind users to navigate technology using Braille >>>>>> commands. >>>>>> >>>>>> Image: PRovided by Apple >>>>>> >>>>>> That autonomy of choice in accessibility, Apple says, is intentional. >>>>>> The company believes that the ability to choose — to have several tools >>>>>> at a user's disposal, whenever they want them — is key to its >>>>>> accessibility values. >>>>>> >>>>>> Giving back to the community >>>>>> >>>>>> Last week, Castor attended a conference hosted by the National >>>>>> Federation of the Blind, where she gave a speech telling her story. She >>>>>> says the impact that Apple has had on the blind community was extremely >>>>>> clear as soon as she stepped into the conference hall — just by >>>>>> listening to what was going on around her. >>>>>> >>>>>> "When I walk through the convention, I hear VoiceOver everywhere," she >>>>>> says. "Being able to give back through something that so many people use >>>>>> is amazing." >>>>>> >>>>>> Castor was recently able to use her presence and perspective at Apple to >>>>>> give back to a part of the community she's especially passionate about — >>>>>> the next generation of engineers. >>>>>> >>>>>> She was a driving force behind accessibility on Apple's soon-to-be >>>>>> released Swift Playgrounds, an intro-to-coding program geared toward >>>>>> children. She's been working to make the program accessible to blind >>>>>> children, who have been waiting a long time for the tool, she says. >>>>>> >>>>>> "I would constantly get Facebook messages from so many parents of blind >>>>>> children, saying, 'My child wants to code so badly. Do you know of a way >>>>>> that they can do that?'" Castor says. "Now, when it's released, I can >>>>>> say, 'Absolutely, absolutely they can start coding.'" >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Promotional materials for Swift Playgrounds show how the program will >>>>>> work when released in fall. Users will code commands to make a character >>>>>> move throughout puzzle-like challenges. The program will use VoiceOver >>>>>> to be accessible to blind children. >>>>>> Image: Provided by Apple >>>>>> >>>>>> Castor says working on Swift Playgrounds has been an empowering >>>>>> experience, and her team has deeply valued her perspective on the >>>>>> VoiceOver experience for blind users. >>>>>> >>>>>> "[Blindness] does not define you or what you can do in life." >>>>>> She says the task-based, interactive app would have made a massive >>>>>> impact on her as a child. The program is, after all, a guided way of >>>>>> taking tech and figuring out what makes it tick — a virtual version of >>>>>> the hands-on curiosity adults instilled in her as a child. >>>>>> >>>>>> "It will allow children to dive into code," she says of the program. >>>>>> "They can use Swift Playgrounds right away out of the box; no >>>>>> modifications. Just turn on VoiceOver and be able to start coding." >>>>>> >>>>>> As someone who was always encouraged to challenge expectations, Castor >>>>>> says she has one simple message for the next generation of blind coders, >>>>>> like the children who will sit down with Swift Playgrounds in the fall. >>>>>> >>>>>> "Blindness does not define you," she says. "It's part of who you are as >>>>>> a person, as a characteristic — but it does not define you or what you >>>>>> can do in life." >>>>>> >>>>>> Have something to add to this story? Share it in the comments. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Best wishes, >>>>>> >>>>>> Jonathan Cohn >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>>> >>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is >>>>>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>>> >>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>>>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>> >>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>> >>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara >>>>> Quinn - 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you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries > list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara > Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
