Hi Donna and Devin, Devin, if your as sheltered as you make it sound, Donnas suggestion of a community college would be a great idea, you would also get to meet many other people from all walks of life.
I’ve met truckloads of people from my studies at University I would tell my family where to get off if my parents had tried to put me into a group living situation. From: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] On Behalf Of Donna Goodin Sent: Friday, 15 July 2016 12:56 AM To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com Subject: To Devon, (was This blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at only 22 Thank you, Scott. I've been thinking about how to respond to this message since last night. You hit the nail on the head. Devon, no, I can't imagine why on earth you would be at an adult learning facility. Do you have any ideas about what kind of career you might like to pursue? I would suggest a visit to a community college as a starting point. Meet with a career counselor there, a regular career counselor is going to be much more likely to help you generate a broader list of options. Then maybe start by taking a couple of classes there. That would be a good way to get your feet wet and figure out if a four-year college is for you. If it's not, it will still help you come up with some better options for yourself than what you currently have. Cheers, Donna On Jul 13, 2016, at 11:47 PM, Scott Granados <sc...@qualityip.net<mailto:sc...@qualityip.net>> wrote: I’m hoping there’s some hyperbole or excess here to make a point because on the surface your message disturbs me. You’re far to smart to end up in a group home. I’ve seen your posts here and other places, you don’t seem like group home material to me. How can we help avoid such a thing? On Jul 13, 2016, at 4:55 PM, Devin Prater <d.pra...@me.com<mailto:d.pra...@me.com>> wrote: I talked to her years ago, before she joined Apple. Yeah, she’s pretty cool. I guess I’m the blindie here. I grew up a pampered kid in a lower-middle class home. I went and somehow graduated from the Alabama school for the blind, where teachers seemed to care but just couldn’t do much, or didn’t know what to do, exactly. As you can imagine, they then shuttled me off to the adult learning facility, E.H. Gentry, where I attend now. I know more than I did when I left ASB, sure, but these blindness organizations just aren’t all that organized, at least here in the state of football and rednecks. I just hope that I can get at least something to happen before my family decides a group home would indeed be just the spot to plop down their poor blind boy that just can’t seem to learn independence and advocacy skills no matter where the Alabama Institute sends him. Oh discordia. Sent from my Mac. Devin Prater d.pra...@me.com<mailto:d.pra...@me.com> On Jul 13, 2016, at 6:38 AM, Donna Goodin <doniado...@me.com<mailto:doniado...@me.com>> wrote: Hi Katie, Yep, I agree with everything you pointed out. It really is a nice braille display. I haven't had the problem you describe, so I'm afraid I can't help you. Have you tried calling tech support or posting the VarioUltra list? It's a great list, with some very helpful and knowledgeable folks. Cheers, Donna On Jul 12, 2016, at 10:52 PM, Katie Zodrow <kzodrow...@att.net<mailto:kzodrow...@att.net>> wrote: Hi, Donna. Yes, I’ve been learning to use the VarioUltra since May and love it! :-) its the best braille display for me so far. I think its great you can just connect a device like your phone via bluetooth and it works once the pairing is successfully connected. I can also text or email people with just my iphone and the braille display, so that’s awesome I don’t always need to constantly use dictation. Its really cool that you can just charge the device with a USB cable too instead of carrying around a 12 volt charger. The only problem I have sometimes is opening documents. Yesterday, I tried opening a couple files with the USB stick connected to the device. They were in .docx format, an every time I’d press the navistick to open the file, I would get a warning that said the file could not be opened. Really strange. The VU is the lightest and smallest display I’ve ever seen compared to my old Braille Lite 40 and the BrailleNote MPower. Those were the 2 previous notetakers I used with braille displays. I’ll be getting some more training again with the VU in a couple days, so hopefully I can find out why the documents were not opening from my flash drive. Katie On Jul 12, 2016, at 8:05 PM, Donna Goodin <doniado...@me.com<mailto:doniado...@me.com>> wrote: Hi Katie, Isn't the VarioUltra the best? Earlier tonight I was thinking about how bulky things used to be. My first braille display was a TSI Navigator. The thing was huge. I used to carry around what was basically a large briefcase, just to carry around my PC laptop and my braille display, and of course, all the accompanying cables and chargers.. When I compare that with now carrying around my MBA and VU,, not to mention having the option of pairing the VU with the iPhone, the difference between then and now is really striking. Cheers, Donna On Jul 12, 2016, at 9:38 PM, Katie Zodrow <kzodrow...@att.net<mailto:kzodrow...@att.net>> wrote: Hi Donna and Scott. I thought I would chime in too. Yes, you're right about Apple starting accessibility over 30 years ago, even before we had voiceover and the mac. It sounds like my experience is somewhat similar to yours, even though I was born a few years later and I started using computers and technology at an earlier age. My dad was more of a computer and tech guy too, but both my parents used the computer often at home and at work. I grew up during the 1980s and 90s. I have an older sister so I was the youngest and the only blind person in my family. I was born in Ohio 3 months premature and have been blind since birth. My family moved to the Chicago suburbs when I was 2, which is where I grew up. I lived in that area for 18 years until I was 20. My family has always been very encouraging and supportive. They wanted to give me the best education possible, so I was mainstreamed in public schools from age 3 to high school. The elementary school I attended was a few miles away in another city from where we lived, but they had a great Special Ed program with a resource room for all the kids with blindness and other disabilities. I would go there if I wasn’t with the regular classroom teacher during part of the day like for Reading or Math. The vision teacher in my resource room and the rest of the staff at the school were all great! Besides my parents helping me learn and encouraging me to be independent, The school provided all the extra services I needed back then like reading Braille, O and M skills, and basic daily living skills. I still use braille often, and that skill along with the others are very important for employment and being independent. In middle and high school, I worked with an itinerant teacher for an hour and was in regular classes with the sighted students the rest of the day. one of the first computers I used in elementary school was the Apple II E with that robotic sounding Echo speech synthesizer. The Alex voice and synthesized speech have come a long way since then!! :-) I remember when I was about four and five years old and pressing different keys on the Apple 2 keyboard. I thought it was really cool how the Echo synthesizer would pronounce everything, and that you could change the speech rate and pitch of the voice. It would always sound really funny talking in a really high or low pitch! When I was in first grade, my parents bought an Apple II GS computer. my sister and I used to play a lot of games on it and some of them had speech using the Echo synthesizer so I could play them myself. I remember using the old word processing programs too like Braille Edit and another one called ProWord ProBraille in middle and high school. Everything was all on 3.5 inch floppy disc back then, or they were on those bigger 5 and 1/4 inch diskettes. During most of my elementary school years, my mom worked at a high school in a resource room. She worked as a teacher assistant to the main resource teacher preparing materials in Braille for the blind and visually impaired students. When she would put handouts and other information in Braille for me or the high school students, she would normally use either BrailleEdit or another program called Bex. I remember my mom taught me how to use the BrailleEdit software for word processing. You had to use three different 5.25 inch disks just to use the program, and they had to be used in a certain order so the program could work correctly. We had the Apple II GS computer until my junior year of high school. I got a desktop PC with Windows 98 and JAWS after that. My parents wanted me to get my own computer before I started college. I used a Mac computer for the first time in the summer of 2000 after my first semester of college and learned outSPOKEN. I attended Berklee College of Music in Boston from 2000 to 2004, and almost everyone was using the Mac OS. For a couple of my music tech classes, I used outSPOKEN when I was learning Digital Performer and ProTools. I still used the Windows platform most of the time from 1998 until 2013, then I decided to switch back over to the Mac. I had worked in a couple call centers as a telephone reservations sales agent for 6 years, and wanted to get back into the entertainment industry doing audio production work and music again. I majored in Music Production and Engineering in college, and wanted to get back into a career I enjoy and am passionate about . Now, I do just about everything with the Mac and my iPhone. I received the new VarioUltra braille display earlier this year, and use that device with the iphone or when I’m at work and don’t want to use speech. I can’t believe how far we’ve come with technology since the 1980’s! Back then, everything was so huge and bulky 30 years ago. Now the size of everything has drastically shrunk down and gotten much smaller. It will be interesting to see what technology changes happen during the next 30 to 40 years. Katie On Jul 12, 2016, at 5:39 PM, Christopher-Mark Gilland <clgillan...@gmail.com<mailto:clgillan...@gmail.com>> wrote: Wut? "Stupid sighted people"? That's a little harsh, don'tcha think? LOL! Smile. --- It's all good, just am sayin'. Christopher Gilland JAWS Certified, 2016. Training Instructor. clgillan...@gmail.com<mailto:clgillan...@gmail.com> Phone: (704) 256-8010. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Terje Strømberg" <terjestrmb...@gmail.com<mailto:terjestrmb...@gmail.com>> To: "Mac Group" <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> Cc: "Terje Strømberg" <terjestrmb...@gmail.com<mailto:terjestrmb...@gmail.com>> Sent: Tuesday, July 12, 2016 3:56 AM Subject: Re: This blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at only 22 Take care Great article. So many stupid sighted people around. 12. jul. 2016 kl. 08.19 skrev Anne Robertson <a...@anarchie.org.uk<mailto:a...@anarchie.org.uk>>: I grew up in England and between the ages of 7 and 17, attended schools for the blind where maths was taught, but the only science was biology, which didn’t interest me at the time. I would have preferred to learn physics. I finished my secondary education in a mainstream school and specialised in languages. I studied French at university, but then I went into computer programming. The tool that allowed me to work on an equal footing with my sighted colleagues was the optacon. I was able to read the terminal screen and printout. I programmed the Apple ii in hexadecimal and read all the manuals using the optacon. I didn’t use speech on a computer until we got a Mac, a 2SI, during the 90s and I purchased OutSpoken. It never occurred to me that I might not be able to get a job as a blind person once the optacon became available to me. Cheers, Anne On 12 Jul 2016, at 05:15, Donna Goodin <doniado...@me.com<mailto:doniado...@me.com>> wrote: Hey Scott, First let me say that on a very fundamental level I agree with your post. But ... As a kid, I somehow sort of absorbed the fact that because I was blind, math and the sciences weren't for me. And this despite the fact that my dad was a computer guy, who spent lots of time and energy conveying to me how important tech would be for me.. Some of my earliest memories are of him bringing home those old computer punch cards and magnetic tapes for my brother and me to play with. I remember going with him into the office on Saturdays and seeing the computer, which was this great big behemoth that took up an entire room. I remember him teaching me base 2 at the dinner table. But once I got to school, my math and science teachers had no idea what to do with me. Classes were taught almost exclusively on the blackboard, and I was bored out of my mind. I grew up thinking I sucked at math, and it wasn't until I was in my thirties that I realized that I was actually pretty bloody good at it. Back in the 80s, I went out with this total computer geek. I was fascinated by all the stuff he was into, but neither he nor I knew how to make all that accessible to me. (And by that time, I actually owned a TSI Versabraille). I think that had I been born within the last 25 years, I actually would have chosen IT--or something related--as a career. Clearly something was different for you and John. Maybe it was innate intelligence, maybe there was a gender bias at play, maybe it was opportunity, I don't know. I do know from other posts I've seen from you that your parents seemed quite willing to think out of the box. I grew up in suburbia. My mom was 20 when she had me, my dad was 22. Having a blind kid pretty much rocked their young, limited world. I don't think my experience is unique. Whatever it was that jived for you guys, didn't carry over to lots of blind folks. So yes, it was a fluff piece. And yes, I wish they'd just treat blind folks like everyone else. But I also hope that there's a little Donna out there somewhere--or maybe little Donna's parents--who don't buy into those preconceived notions about what someone who's blind can or cannot do, and that someday 20 years from now, that little Donna finds herself at the heart of technological developments. Just an alternate perspective. Cheers, Donna On Jul 11, 2016, at 9:32 PM, Scott Granados <sc...@qualityip.net<mailto:sc...@qualityip.net>> wrote: So here’s my problem with the article. I think it’s fantastic what this young lady is doing, I absolutely support her efforts. I also am thrilled that apple hired someone from our community for the design side. I’m also happy Google does the same now and there’s discussion of teaching children to code. My problem is with the reporter. These articles are so damn fluff happy. Look at Apple saving the day for blind people. Like it’s something new. Never mind you John and I built parts of the networks this reporter publishes on.:) The article leads the reader to believe that blind people could only code until recently. This blind guy as a child started coding 33+ years ago learning things like 6502 assembler, Apple Soft, PASCAL, then C and so forth. We used apples or PCs or what ever to get it done and in some ways have been directly or indirectly involved with the development of computers since the very beginning. Real trail blazers like your self or Ray Kurzweil building devices to help his child, certain musicians with very deep pockets who brought some of the funding to the table, any blind person at all who successfully landed a job and held it showing others in our own little way we’re just people doing the same things that everyone else does, try to help take care of your selves, families and participate in our communities. I guess part of me just wishes that instead of being singled out and made to be some sort of something special we were just dealt with and reflected on by reporters especially as just another part of society. Lest I get way to NFB here:) but there’s something to be said for being lumped in with everyone else.:) The special attention sometimes makes us seem well special in the sense we’re not the norm, we’re almost untouchable and separate to make a reference to a really unfortunate cultural label in eastern societies. The same thing happens with reporters who publish puff pieces on artificial vision advances or medical advances that cure illnesses related to blindness. I don’t know how many articles I’ve read where some gadget is going to save us from our selves and totally make it all better. Things ain’t that bad. What’s bad is convincing the public we need to be saved. Maybe I’m just becoming a grumpy old man like I was afraid of when I was young. Still, congratulations to this young lady but also congratulations to all the other engineers at apple some of which are on this list. And congratulations to you John and others who have made countless contributions to technology in general. Ah well, what’s the expression, there’s no such thing as bad publicity? Suppose that’s true. On Jul 11, 2016, at 2:29 PM, Jonathan C. Cohn <jon.c.c...@gmail.com<mailto:jon.c.c...@gmail.com>> wrote: Well, this is interesting story. I don't believe they mention anything about braille. But at least it shows there are people at Apple working on accessibility. http://mashable.com/2016/07/10/apple-innovation-blind-engineer/#RihiKu145Oqr This blind Apple engineer is transforming the tech world at only 22 Apple engineer Jordyn Castor has never been one for limitations. She was born 15 weeks early, weighing just under two pounds. Her grandfather could hold her in the palm of his hand, and could even slide his wedding ring along her arm and over her shoulder. Doctors said she had a slim chance of survival. It was Castor's first brush with limited expectations — and also the first time she shattered them. Castor, now 22, has been blind since birth, a result of her early delivery. But throughout childhood, her parents encouraged her to defy expectations of people with disabilities, motivating her to be adventurous, hands-on and insatiably curious. It was that spirit that led to her interact with technology, whether it was the desktop computer her family bought when she was in second grade, or the classroom computer teachers encouraged her to use in school. "I could help make technology more accessible for blind users." She says the adults in her life would often hand her a gadget, telling her to figure it out and show them how to use it. And she would. "I realized then I could code on the computer to have it fulfill the tasks I wanted it to," says Castor, whose current work focuses on enhancing features like VoiceOver for blind Apple users. "I came to realize that with my knowledge of computers and technology, I could help change the world for people with disabilities. "I could help make technology more accessible for blind users." Bringing a personal perspective to Apple innovation There's an often overlooked component of "diversity" in workplace initiatives — the need to include the perspectives of people with disabilities. Keeping tabs on the needs of the blind and low-vision community is a key component of Apple's innovation in accessibility. Castor is proof of how much that can strengthen a company. She was a college student at Michigan State University when she was first introduced to Apple at a Minneapolis job fair in 2015. Castor went to the gathering of employers, already knowing the tech giant would be there — and she was nervous. "You aren't going to know unless you try," she thought. "You aren't going to know unless you talk to them ... so go." Apple engineer Jordyn Castor poses for a headshot. Castor is a driving force behind accessibility of Apple products, especially for blind users. Image: Provided by Apple and Jordyn Castor Castor told Apple reps how amazed she was by the iPad she received as a gift for her 17th birthday just a few years earlier. It raised her passion for tech to another level — mainly due to the iPad's immediate accessibility. "Everything just worked and was accessible just right out of the box," Castor tells Mashable. "That was something I had never experienced before." "I'm directly impacting the lives of the blind community." Sarah Herrlinger, senior manager for global accessibility policy and initiatives at Apple, says a notable part of the company's steps toward accessibility is its dedication to making inclusivity features standard, not specialized. This allows those features to be dually accessible — both for getting the tech to more users, as well as keeping down costs. "[These features] show up on your device, regardless of if you are someone who needs them," Herrlinger tells Mashable. "By being built-in, they are also free. Historically, for the blind and visually impaired community, there are additional things you have to buy or things that you have to do to be able to use technology." At that job fair in 2015, Castor's passion for accessibility and Apple was evident. She was soon hired as an intern focusing on VoiceOver accessibility. As her internship came to a close, Castor's skills as an engineer and advocate for tech accessibility were too commanding to let go. She was hired full-time as an engineer on the accessibility design and quality team — a group of people Castor describes as "passionate" and "dedicated." "I'm directly impacting the lives of the blind community," she says of her work. "It's incredible." Innovation with blind users in mind Increased accessibility for all users is one of Apple's driving values, under the mantra "inclusion inspires innovation." Herrlinger says the company loves what it makes, and wants what it makes to be available to everyone. She describes the need to continuously innovate with accessibility in mind as part of Apple's DNA. "Accessibility is something that is never-ending," Herrlinger says. "It isn't something where you just do it once, check that box and then move on to do other things." And it's a dedication that isn't going unnoticed by the blind community. On July 4, Apple was the recipient of the American Council of the Blind's Robert S. Bray Award for the company's strides in accessibility and continued dedication to inclusion-based innovation for blind users. Sarah Herrlinger, senior manager for global accessibility policy and initiatives at Apple, and Eric Bridges, executive director of the American Council of the Blind (ACB), pose with the Robert S. Bray award at ACB's national conference on July 4, 2016. Image: PRovided by Apple and ACB The company, for example, made the first touchscreen device accessible to the blind via VoiceOver. Recent announcements of Siri coming to Mac this fall, and of newer innovations, like a magnifying glass feature for low-vision users, have continued the promise of improving the Apple experience for those who are blind and low vision. "The fact that we take the time to innovate in these ways is something new and different," Herrlinger says. "It was not the expected thing in the tech community." "[Accessibility] isn't something where you just do it once, check that box and then move on to do other things." Often, the success of such innovations depends on the input of the community — and employees like Castor provide irreplaceable first-hand insight into the tech experience for blind individuals. The most recent example of community-driven innovation can be found on the Apple Watch. During a meeting, Herrlinger explains, a person who sees could easily peer down at their watch to keep an eye on the clock. A person who is blind, however, hasn't had a way to tell time without VoiceOver. After confronting the conundrum, Apple solved the issue by making a feature that tells time through vibrations. The addition, Herrlinger says, is coming to watchOS 3 this fall. High-tech meets low-tech Castor says her own success — and her career — hinges on two things: technology and Braille. That may sound strange to many people, even to some who are blind and visually impaired. Braille and new tech are often depicted as at odds with one another, with Braille literacy rates decreasing as the presence of tech increases. But many activists argue that Braille literacy is the key to employment and stable livelihood for blind individuals. With more than 70% of blind people lacking employment, the majority of those who are employed — an estimated 80% — have something in common: They read Braille. "Braille allows me to know what the code feels like." For Castor, Braille is crucial to her innovative work at Apple — and she insists tech is complementary to Braille, not a replacement. "I use a Braille display every time I write a piece of code," she says. "Braille allows me to know what the code feels like." In coding, she uses a combination of Nemeth Braille — or "math Braille" — and Alphabetic Braille. Castor even says that with the heavy presence of tech in her life, she still prefers to read meeting agendas in Braille. "I can see grammar. I can see punctuation. I can see how things are spelled and how things are written out," she says. The technologies that Apple creates support her love of Braille, too — there are various modifications, like Braille displays that can to plug into devices, to help her code and communicate. But Castor also often forgoes Braille displays, solely using VoiceOver to navigate her devices and read screens. A Braille display like this one, which is compatible with Apple products, allows blind users to navigate technology using Braille commands. Image: PRovided by Apple That autonomy of choice in accessibility, Apple says, is intentional. The company believes that the ability to choose — to have several tools at a user's disposal, whenever they want them — is key to its accessibility values. Giving back to the community Last week, Castor attended a conference hosted by the National Federation of the Blind, where she gave a speech telling her story. She says the impact that Apple has had on the blind community was extremely clear as soon as she stepped into the conference hall — just by listening to what was going on around her. "When I walk through the convention, I hear VoiceOver everywhere," she says. "Being able to give back through something that so many people use is amazing." Castor was recently able to use her presence and perspective at Apple to give back to a part of the community she's especially passionate about — the next generation of engineers. She was a driving force behind accessibility on Apple's soon-to-be released Swift Playgrounds, an intro-to-coding program geared toward children. She's been working to make the program accessible to blind children, who have been waiting a long time for the tool, she says. "I would constantly get Facebook messages from so many parents of blind children, saying, 'My child wants to code so badly. Do you know of a way that they can do that?'" Castor says. "Now, when it's released, I can say, 'Absolutely, absolutely they can start coding.'" Promotional materials for Swift Playgrounds show how the program will work when released in fall. Users will code commands to make a character move throughout puzzle-like challenges. The program will use VoiceOver to be accessible to blind children. Image: Provided by Apple Castor says working on Swift Playgrounds has been an empowering experience, and her team has deeply valued her perspective on the VoiceOver experience for blind users. "[Blindness] does not define you or what you can do in life." She says the task-based, interactive app would have made a massive impact on her as a child. The program is, after all, a guided way of taking tech and figuring out what makes it tick — a virtual version of the hands-on curiosity adults instilled in her as a child. "It will allow children to dive into code," she says of the program. "They can use Swift Playgrounds right away out of the box; no modifications. Just turn on VoiceOver and be able to start coding." As someone who was always encouraged to challenge expectations, Castor says she has one simple message for the next generation of blind coders, like the children who will sit down with Swift Playgrounds in the fall. "Blindness does not define you," she says. "It's part of who you are as a person, as a characteristic — but it does not define you or what you can do in life." Have something to add to this story? Share it in the comments. Best wishes, Jonathan Cohn -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. 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If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com<mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com<mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com<mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. 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Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com<mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com<mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com<mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. 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Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com<mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com<mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
