Hi, Simon: I think you and I are actually in agreement here, except that I think this has just changed with Windows 10. I believe Windows 10 now supports UEFI and GPT natively, which would remove this limitation. I can't prove it just yet, but this is what I believe to be the situation.
Janina Simon Fogarty writes: > Hi Janina, > > It's not an apple issue it's a windows issue and has been around for years. > > Windows only allows for up to 4 partitions on a drive.try it and see what > happens. > I will say this could have changed in the latest release of windows 10 but it > isn't likely. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries > [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] > Sent: Friday, 15 December 2017 8:11 AM > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly > > Simon: > > I'm not convinced you're correct about the partitioning limitations for > Bootcamp, though I suspect you may be correct for previous iterations of os x > and Windows. Apple was an early adopter of EFI and gpt, whereas Microsoft has > only recently joined the party leaving mbr behind. > > I'm further hesitant because the man page for diskutil appears a bit lax with > its nomenclature, i.e. I'm still looking for clear definitions of what's a > disk, what's a partition, what's a container, and what's a volume. The term > 'disk' is for sure not being used consistently in the man page or the output > of the diskutil tool, e.g. I have one disk on this Airbook, a 500Gb SSD disk. > Yet the command output I reproduce below talks about "synthesized disks" as > well as targets with identifiers like disk1, disk2, disk3, and disk4. Not > very helpful, imo. > > Note, please, I'm talking about the command line program disutil, not the > graphical Disk Utility tool in the Utilities folder. The cli tool provides > features not available in the gui app, but you have to be very precise in > your syntax--which is why nomenclature becomes so very important. > > On my last attempt to install Windows using Bootcamp, there was but one > partition showing in the graphical Disk Utility tool, the main Mac agpfs > drive. I had successfully reduced it to 224Gb, and left the remainder of the > SSD unpartitioned and unformatted. I did this intentionally. I wanted to see > whether I could trick Bootcamp into installing itself at the end of > partitioned space, or whether it would insist at trying to install at the > very end of available physical space. It turned out to be the latter. The > below output demonstrates it attempted to create a Bootcamp partition at the > end of physical space, and then failed because it isn't programmed to cope > with unformatted physical space, i.e. it needs either apfs or hfs, I suppose. > > My next attempt will present Bootcamp with two partitions using all available > space on the SSD. I'll go ahead and make thos apfs before I run Bootcamp, as > it's clearly able to work with apfs from my previous experience. > > Here's the current status of my SSD according to disktool: > > /dev/disk0 (internal, physical): > #: TYPE NAME SIZE IDENTIFIER > 0: GUID_partition_scheme *500.3 GB disk0 > 1: EFI EFI 209.7 MB disk0s1 > 2: Apple_APFS Container disk1 224.0 GB disk0s2 > > /dev/disk1 (synthesized): > #: TYPE NAME SIZE IDENTIFIER > 0: APFS Container Scheme - +224.0 GB disk1 > Physical Store disk0s2 > 1: APFS Volume Macintosh HD 60.4 GB disk1s1 > 2: APFS Volume Preboot 17.9 MB disk1s2 > 3: APFS Volume Recovery 520.8 MB disk1s3 > 4: APFS Volume VM 1.1 GB disk1s4 > > /dev/disk3 (disk image): > #: TYPE NAME SIZE IDENTIFIER > 0: CCCOMA_X64FRE_EN-US... +4.7 GB disk3 > > /dev/disk4 (disk image): > #: TYPE NAME SIZE IDENTIFIER > 0: Boot Camp +2.8 GB disk4 > > > > Simon Fogarty writes: > > Hi Folks, > > > > Just remember one big issue with multiple installations on a mac HD > > Mac os x and then adding windows to a boot camp partition This is half > > of whatyou'll get away with on a device like this Windows will only > > allow you to have 4 partitions before it gets problematic Those four > > partitions include the MacOS and windows partitions And I haven't yet > > seen bootcamp allow you to use it twice in setting up systems > > -----Original Message----- > > From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries > > [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] > > Sent: Thursday, 14 December 2017 4:55 AM > > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > > Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp accessibly > > > > I've learned a lot more since last posting on this thread. > > > > First, in response to Anders, I have been seriously considering a three OS > > boot environment on my Airbook, OS x; Windows 10; And Linux. There is a > > boot manager that would accomodate that called rEFInd. I have not gone > > beyond the exploratory stage with this approach, because I've now abandoned > > it. > > > > The reason I've abandoned it is that Windows 10 developer tools provide a > > very sophisticated Linux environment in the Windows Terminal. In fact one > > will soon be able to choose one's preferred Linux distribution, or even to > > have multiple installed Linux distributions, all available for use in the > > Windows Terminal with screen readers like NVDA or JAWS. > > Here's the Microsoft announcement: > > > > https://blogs.msdn.microsoft.com/commandline/2017/05/11/new-distros-co > > ming-t > > > > So, this convinced me that all I needed was a functional Bootcamp > > installation. Well, almost all. I still need a way to share files between > > the two boot environments. > > > > My current solution to sharing is to split my Macintosh drive in three. > > Bootcamp will take care of the second partition for Windows. I'm creating > > the third one, probably as JHFS, because I believe Bootcamp supports > > accessing JHFS, whereas APFS is not yet supported. > > > > Am I wrong about APFS? Anyone know for sure? I'd rather use APFS, frankly. > > > > This is where I am at the moment, playing with diskutil in an ssh session > > to the terminal on my Airbook in order to repartition my SSD to taste. > > > > > > I've had quite a few false starts, but I'm learning as I go and I am > > getting there. I expect I'll have a working Botcamp later today. > > > > > > Lastly, seems Apple has done something about my earlier complaint. Seems > > the only reason I have to burn Windows to a USB stick is that my Airbook is > > too old to support mounting the Windows ISO file for a Bootcamp install. I > > ran across a Bootcamp page explaining what hardware can, and can't do that. > > However, once I answered that question, I had no further need for the page, > > so I didn't bookmark it. Sorry! > > > > Janina > > > > > > > > > > Anders Holmberg writes: > > > Hi! > > > I wonder if its more easy to install Linux in a bootcamp partition such > > > as Debian onto the mac. > > > Has anyone here tried to have both Osx and linux installed so that you > > > can boot into linux and then shutdown linux and boot back into Hi Sierra > > > for example. > > > /A > > > > > > > 8 dec. 2017 kl. 07:16 skrev Simon Fogarty <si...@blinky-net.com>: > > > > > > > > HiJanina, > > > > > > > > I don't think so as the installation of windows is actually to a > > > > new partition which eventually becomes NTFS but starts the process > > > > as the AFS, then after the partitioning in bootcamp is a GPT > > > > format, this I don't see as an issue as the ISO file contains the > > > > required installation files and apple can read from the ISO > > > > > > > > But yes I do see what you mean, putting things on to a flash drive > > > > will let the windows installation work directly from that USB > > > > rather than through the middle man AFS > > > > > > > > In all honesty the windows installation files can be found in one > > > > rather simple smallish file > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries > > > > [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] > > > > Sent: Friday, 8 December 2017 2:22 PM > > > > To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > > > > Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp > > > > accessibly > > > > > > > > I guess as I think about this a bit more, I think I understand the > > > > issue is access to the file system housing the iso image. I suppose > > > > Microsoft and Apple haven't decided to give Windows mounting access to > > > > afs. > > > > > > > > > > > > I understand about Windows drivers to run Windows on Apple hardware. > > > > That makes tons of sense. But, why not incloud the ability to mount afs > > > > in the bundle and install Windows directly from the iso image that's > > > > required in the Mac partition in the first place? That's the quaintness > > > > behind this lament! > > > > > > > > Janina > > > > > > > > Simon Fogarty writes: > > > >> Hi Janina > > > >> > > > >> Well in simple terms it's called drivers! > > > >> > > > >> Windows by default doesn't include the apple device drivers for all > > > >> apple / mac computers in their ISO files. > > > >> > > > >> What the installation process does is download to the USB the > > > >> apple bootcamp device drivers for the installation and then once > > > >> that is done it starts the full installation, > > > >> > > > >> There ar some windows installation features but it's mainly the > > > >> drivers on the usb. > > > >> > > > >> Once it's created you should have a look at the content. > > > >> > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > >> From: 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries > > > >> [mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com] > > > >> Sent: Thursday, 7 December 2017 8:49 PM > > > >> To: macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > > > >> Subject: Re: podcast on installing windows with bootcamp > > > >> accessibly > > > >> > > > >> Strange that bootcamp needs one to create a bootable stick, given how > > > >> long that process takes. > > > >> > > > >> It's quite common to install from an iso file, which bootcamp uses to > > > >> create the USB stick. So, why can't it just install from the iso image > > > >> like is so common in multiple environments, including with VMware on > > > >> Mac, just to cite one example. > > > >> > > > >> Just curious. > > > >> > > > >> Janina > > > >> > > > >> Aleeha Dudley writes: > > > >>> Hey all, > > > >>> I know there was a question a while back about this. Here’s a podcast > > > >>> that shows you how to install Windows 10 with Bootcamp. without > > > >>> sighted assistance. > > > >>> The URL is: > > > >>> https://iaccessibility.net/iacast-democast-14-installing-windows > > > >>> -o > > > >>> n- > > > >>> a- > > > >>> mac-accessibly-with-bootcamp/ > > > >>> I hope this helps someone. > > > >>> Aleeha > > > >>> > > > >>> -- > > > >>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac > > > >>> Visionaries list. > > > >>> > > > >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, > > > >>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact > > > >>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list > > > >>> itself. > > > >>> > > > >>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can > > > >>> reach mark at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and > > > >>> your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > > > >>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > > >>> > > > >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: > > > >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > > > >>> --- > > > >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > >>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > > > >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, > > > >>> send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > > >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > > > >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > > > >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> > > > >> Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200 > > > >> sip:jan...@asterisk.rednote.net > > > >> Email: jan...@rednote.net > > > >> > > > >> Linux Foundation Fellow > > > >> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org > > > >> > > > >> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) > > > >> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures > > > >> http://www.w3.org/wai/apa > > > >> > > > >> -- > > > >> The following information is important for all members of the Mac > > > >> Visionaries list. > > > >> > > > >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, > > > >> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact > > > >> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list > > > >> itself. > > > >> > > > >> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. 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You can > > > >> reach mark at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and > > > >> your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > > > >> caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > > >> > > > >> The archives for this list can be searched at: > > > >> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > > > >> --- > > > >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > >> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > > > >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > > > >> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > > >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > > > >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > > > >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > > > > > Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200 > > > > sip:jan...@asterisk.rednote.net > > > > Email: jan...@rednote.net > > > > > > > > Linux Foundation Fellow > > > > Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org > > > > > > > > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) > > > > Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures > > > > http://www.w3.org/wai/apa > > > > > > > > -- > > > > The following information is important for all members of the Mac > > > > Visionaries list. > > > > > > > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, > > > > or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact > > > > the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list > > > > itself. > > > > > > > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach > > > > mark at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner > > > > is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > > > > > > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > > > > --- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > > Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > > > > an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > > > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > > > > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > > > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > > > > -- > > > > The following information is important for all members of the Mac > > > > Visionaries list. > > > > > > > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, > > > > or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact > > > > the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list > > > > itself. > > > > > > > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach > > > > mark at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner > > > > is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > > > > > > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > > > > --- > > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google > > > > Groups "MacVisionaries" group. > > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send > > > > an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > > > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > > > > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > > > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > > > -- > > > The following information is important for all members of the Mac > > > Visionaries list. > > > > > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or > > > if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the > > > owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > > > > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach > > > mark at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner > > > is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > > > > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > > > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > > > --- > > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > > "MacVisionaries" group. > > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > > > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > > > > Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200 > > sip:jan...@asterisk.rednote.net > > Email: jan...@rednote.net > > > > Linux Foundation Fellow > > Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org > > > > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) > > Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa > > > > -- > > The following information is important for all members of the Mac > > Visionaries list. > > > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners > > or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach > > mark at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is > > Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > > --- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "MacVisionaries" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > > > -- > > The following information is important for all members of the Mac > > Visionaries list. > > > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners > > or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach > > mark at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is > > Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > > --- > > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > > "MacVisionaries" group. > > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > > Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200 > sip:jan...@asterisk.rednote.net > Email: jan...@rednote.net > > Linux Foundation Fellow > Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org > > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) > Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries > list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: > macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you > can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries > list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: > macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you > can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- Janina Sajka, Phone: +1.443.300.2200 sip:jan...@asterisk.rednote.net Email: jan...@rednote.net Linux Foundation Fellow Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
