Hello Simon and Janina, Well, I thought I had. For some reason every now and again upon boot the mute is applied. I shall reinstall bootcamp drivers again. Hopefully, it will settle down.
But likewise I thank you both for your input. I was going to give up having installed Windows 10 3 times. Let’s hope it’s third time lucky. Now I know what the problem is I’m not going to wipe it out and start again. As I’m confident that it is not something I did wrong, or corrupted file downloads. It’s interesting that we think of Apple products being the same but issues like this show that from a software driver point of view Apple has variations from year to year. Best regards, Gena Call: M0EBP Loc: IO83PS > On 13 Jan 2018, at 15:56, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries > <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com> wrote: > > Glad to hear you got it going, Gena! > > > Thanks again for your support on this. > > Janina > > Georgina Joyce writes: >> >> Hello, >> >> Thanks, Simon. Looking through the messages I remember seeing about F10 and >> I had tried it. I guess I did it just once and muted it. Because now I just >> pressed F10 and have NVDA droning way. >> >> So I’m happy and can go out shopping now. >> >> Gena >> >> “Blindness is not a handicap, it is something I have always lived with. The >> real handicap is the prejudices people have about blindness.” >> >> Michael Hinson 2011 >> >>> On 12 Jan 2018, at 09:40, Georgina Joyce <g...@gena-j.me.uk> wrote: >>> >>> Hello Janina, >>> >>> Yes, I discover that I have not had the missing directory problem. Looking >>> on the USB stick from which I installed windows and the subsequent driver >>> install via bootcamp have the $WinPeDriver$ directory. Using my iPhone and >>> seeing AI I’m able to get fragments of text read but obviously it can’t >>> tell me what has focus . But twice I’ve had Windows installer has stopped >>> working. Both of these were done from a fresh bootcamp driver download. So >>> I copied the audio driver into the root and run it from there. seeing AI >>> tells me that I am in the driver installation wizard. After accepting >>> Apple’s license terms. There’s some text about the there is a newer version >>> already installed. So nearly 2a.m. I crawl to bed. I won’t write what I >>> feel my next step will be at the moment. >>> >>> I am going to train with a new Guide Dog on the 22nd and retire my current >>> dog on this Sunday so I’ve got a lot to do while I can get out and about. >>> So I’ll take my Mac either as a single or double boot machine with me on >>> Guide dog training. >>> >>> Dammed Computers……… >>> >>> >>> Gena >>> >>> Braille is a reading and writing language that all blind people should >>> learn to use. >>> >>> Michael Hingson 2011. >>> >>>> On 12 Jan 2018, at 06:51, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries >>>> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Yes, at the root of the USB device. >>>> >>>> Later, I got the entire payload of drivers in that directory. However, >>>> at the time I discovered this directory was missing, creating an empty >>>> one proved sufficient to run the installation and, in my case, get audio >>>> working natively from the builtin speakers. >>>> >>>> Gena, are you saying that even with a folder load of drivers and a >>>> successful BootCamp install, you're still not getting audio? >>>> >>>> Georgina Joyce writes: >>>>> Hello, >>>>> >>>>> Just to be clear this folder needs to be in the route of the USB stick? >>>>> Using bootcamp to generate another set of drivers it puts the >>>>> $WinPeDriver$ at the same level as the bootcamp folder. As my USB headset >>>>> stopped working I tried to do it blindly. Seeing AI read that an >>>>> installation was successful but the Air is still mute. >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> Gena >>>>> >>>>> “Blindness is not a handicap, it is something I have always lived with. >>>>> The real handicap is the prejudices people have about blindness.” >>>>> >>>>> Michael Hinson 2011 >>>>> >>>>>> On 11 Jan 2018, at 17:13, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries >>>>>> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> I got it sorted! Alleluia! >>>>>> >>>>>> BootCamp drivers most certainly failed to install during the initial >>>>>> Windows installation. Launching d:\BootCamp\Setup.exe yielded the error: >>>>>> >>>>>> $WinPEDriver$ folder not found >>>>>> >>>>>> Following guidance I found at: >>>>>> https://stackoverflow.com/questions/33491592/bootcamp-drivers-lost-winpedriver-folder-how-to-create-it >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://stackoverflow.com/questions/33491592/bootcamp-drivers-lost-winpedriver-folder-how-to-create-it><https://stackoverflow.com/questions/33491592/bootcamp-drivers-lost-winpedriver-folder-how-to-create-it >>>>>> >>>>>> <https://stackoverflow.com/questions/33491592/bootcamp-drivers-lost-winpedriver-folder-how-to-create-it>> >>>>>> >>>>>> I created the missing folder via my Linux console and reran the above >>>>>> command. This made Windows happy. Installation took about 3 minutes and >>>>>> required a reboot. >>>>>> >>>>>> Windows 10 is now happily chattering via the builtin speakers on my >>>>>> Airbook. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks especially to Gena for the suggestion to try using a USB >>>>>> headphone. That gave me the screen reader I was lacking via the 3.5 >>>>>> audio jack on the Airbook. >>>>>> >>>>>> I'm so happy to be past this step. It's been driving me bonkers for >>>>>> weeks and weeks. >>>>>> >>>>>> Thanks to everyone who took an interest and offered suggestions. I >>>>>> appreciate your help very much. >>>>>> >>>>>> Janina >>>>>> >>>>>> 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries writes: >>>>>>> Hi, Gena: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I've changed the subject and disaccoiated the old thread -- hopefully >>>>>>> helpful should anyone go searching ... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The USB headphones are working. They're giving me access to both NVDA >>>>>>> and Narrator in the Windows 10 installation on my Airbook. Strange as >>>>>>> this will sound, I'm actually getting the best info by running NVDA and >>>>>>> Narrator simultaneously! Wierd, but effective for the moment. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Here's the latest iteration of the problem ... >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I can launch the Setup.exe in the BootCamp folder on my USB stick. >>>>>>> However, it immediately errors out complaining of a missing folder whose >>>>>>> exact name I couldn't quite catch. I haven't gone back to the Narrator >>>>>>> docs to learn how to get character by character screen review--that's >>>>>>> next. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The missing folder is something like: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> $WinPC >>>>>>> >>>>>>> I have confirmed via my Linux machine that it is indeed missing from the >>>>>>> USB stick. So, this sounds like some kind of BootCamp error? I think >>>>>>> I'll need to get the exact spelling in order to Google the problem. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> PS: Want to hear something really wierd? NVDA's audio sonicons are >>>>>>> playing via the Airbook's internal speaker. But, I can't get TTS output >>>>>>> there! Stranger and stranger. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Janina >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Georgina Joyce writes: >>>>>>>> Hello Janina, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Well good but bad news. I’ve been using my MacBook Air’s bootcamp >>>>>>>> partition for about an hour. I’ve lost audio. Just plugged in my USB >>>>>>>> headset that I used to install Windows. It made the new hardware sound >>>>>>>> through the headset and NVDA announced installing software for the new >>>>>>>> device. So I have lost sound via it’s own speakers and have sound >>>>>>>> through an independent sound card. So you were right it’s a driver >>>>>>>> issue. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Now why should Windows mess about with a driver while it is in use? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Regards, >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Gena >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Georgina Joyce >>>>>>>> Applied Psychologist >>>>>>>> Training and Coaching. >>>>>>>> Because individuals of groups matter! >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> On 10 Jan 2018, at 15:52, Georgina Joyce <g...@gena-j.me.uk >>>>>>>>> <mailto:g...@gena-j.me.uk>> wrote: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Hello Janina, >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> I think the blind keystrokes might be: >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Open the run dialog box: >>>>>>>>> cmd r, i.e. Windows r. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you have a cd/DVD version the USB will be assigned E:\ if not it >>>>>>>>> is likely to be d:\. I don’t know the path structure of the unzipped >>>>>>>>> package so you’ll need to know it by exploring it on the Mac side of >>>>>>>>> things. Going by the article your run command should be: >>>>>>>>> e:\windowsSupport\setup.ext >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Windows will want you to allow changes so you need: >>>>>>>>> opt Y i.e. alt y. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Then the article suggests you might need to click continue, so you >>>>>>>>> might need to: >>>>>>>>> opt c i.e. alt c. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> You might need to do a: >>>>>>>>> opt f i.e alt f. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> To finish. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Then a opt y i.e. alt y. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Answering yes to a reboot. Then hold on to something that gives you >>>>>>>>> security to see what happens. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> HTH >>>>>>>>> Gena >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> “Why not?” >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Michael Hinson 2011 >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> On 10 Jan 2018, at 15:16, Georgina Joyce <g...@gena-j.me.uk >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:g...@gena-j.me.uk> <mailto:g...@gena-j.me.uk >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:g...@gena-j.me.uk>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Hello Janina, >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Good to hear from you too. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Yes the first thing that needs to be done is to install the bootcamp >>>>>>>>>> drivers. You needed to go to the system tray and bootcamp hangs out >>>>>>>>>> there. There must be a way of triggering the install from the run >>>>>>>>>> dialog. If that is the sate of the machine like installs with >>>>>>>>>> Narrator support a USB headset would provide audio. Did you use a >>>>>>>>>> USB headset that has it’s own sound card for the installation? >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Looking on the web I think you should be able to run the setup.exe >>>>>>>>>> from the run dialog. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> See here: >>>>>>>>>> https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT204923 >>>>>>>>>> <https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT204923><https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT204923 >>>>>>>>>> <https://support.apple.com/en-gb/HT204923>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Gena >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Call: M0EBP >>>>>>>>>> Loc: IO83PS >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> On 10 Jan 2018, at 13:48, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries >>>>>>>>>>> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Yeah, that's what I need to check and confirm. And, if not already >>>>>>>>>>> installed, get them installed. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> All I know is that that box was checked when I started the process. >>>>>>>>>>> Whether it succeeded, or was somehow interrupted or aborted, I have >>>>>>>>>>> no >>>>>>>>>>> way to know. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Jonathan Cohn writes: >>>>>>>>>>>> Did you install the bootcamp drivers? I am not sure exactly how do >>>>>>>>>>>> this, but I understand that sound will not work correctly until >>>>>>>>>>>> the bootcamp drivers are installed once the OS has been installed. >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Best wishes, >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> Jonathan Cohn >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> On Jan 10, 2018, at 5:46 AM, Georgina Joyce <g...@gena-j.me.uk >>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:g...@gena-j.me.uk> <mailto:g...@gena-j.me.uk >>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:g...@gena-j.me.uk>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Hello Janina, >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Interestingly, I lost sound on my bootcamp install of Windows 10 >>>>>>>>>>>>> and blamed it on activation of jaws. The volume was muted twice. >>>>>>>>>>>>> I have removed and reinstalled Windows and installed NVDA but not >>>>>>>>>>>>> really played with it. So I hope I don’t experience the muting of >>>>>>>>>>>>> sound again. I’m sure someone on the BCAB list also had problems >>>>>>>>>>>>> too. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> OK, so have you tried Narrator? >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> I did find a command line to change the mute status but I only >>>>>>>>>>>>> tried it once and it did not return sound, reasoning that I >>>>>>>>>>>>> mistyped or wasn’t in the right place to enter such a command. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> The command was: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> nircmd.exe mutesysvolume 0 >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> From: >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> https://superuser.com/questions/42039/change-windows-sound-volume-via-the-command-line >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://superuser.com/questions/42039/change-windows-sound-volume-via-the-command-line><https://superuser.com/questions/42039/change-windows-sound-volume-via-the-command-line >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://superuser.com/questions/42039/change-windows-sound-volume-via-the-command-line>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://superuser.com/questions/42039/change-windows-sound-volume-via-the-command-line >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://superuser.com/questions/42039/change-windows-sound-volume-via-the-command-line><https://superuser.com/questions/42039/change-windows-sound-volume-via-the-command-line >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> <https://superuser.com/questions/42039/change-windows-sound-volume-via-the-command-line>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Good luck and let us know how you get on. >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Gena >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> Georgina Joyce >>>>>>>>>>>>> Applied Psychologist >>>>>>>>>>>>> Training and Coaching. >>>>>>>>>>>>> Because individuals of groups matter! >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> On 10 Jan 2018, at 03:59, 'Janina Sajka' via MacVisionaries >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>><mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>>> wrote: >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I'm wondering whether it makes sense to doctor a BootCamp >>>>>>>>>>>>>> install of >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows 10 from within VMware. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've encountered the situation where my headphone jack is >>>>>>>>>>>>>> refusing to >>>>>>>>>>>>>> work for my existing BootCamp install of Windows 10. It worked >>>>>>>>>>>>>> for a >>>>>>>>>>>>>> brief while, then stopped. Nothing I've tried has brought it >>>>>>>>>>>>>> back. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> What I need to do is to apply Apple's BootCamp drivers. These >>>>>>>>>>>>>> should >>>>>>>>>>>>>> have been installed via the BootCamp process, of course, but >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've been >>>>>>>>>>>>>> unable to verify that. Certainly, at the moment there's no sound >>>>>>>>>>>>>> from >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Windows, though I've verified there is a working installation >>>>>>>>>>>>>> there. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> I've actually poked around in it with NVDA. It literally died on >>>>>>>>>>>>>> me as I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> was trying to login with my BootCamp drivers at hand on a USB >>>>>>>>>>>>>> stick. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> So, my question. Can I apply these drivers if I load up my >>>>>>>>>>>>>> BootCamp >>>>>>>>>>>>>> install within the latest VMware? I'm presuming it reads apfs. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> But I >>>>>>>>>>>>>> wonder whether it would go silent the same way, or perhaps that >>>>>>>>>>>>>> it might >>>>>>>>>>>>>> be using different drivers at that level. Anyone know? >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> All help much appreciated. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Janina >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Janina Sajka >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Linux Foundation Fellow >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://a11y.org/> <http://a11y.org/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://a11y.org/>><http://a11y.org/ >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://a11y.org/><http://a11y.org/ <http://a11y.org/>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Initiative (WAI) >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures >>>>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/wai/apa >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.w3.org/wai/apa><http://www.w3.org/wai/apa >>>>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.w3.org/wai/apa>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Mac Visionaries list. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this >>>>>>>>>>>>>> list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, >>>>>>>>>>>>>> please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than >>>>>>>>>>>>>> posting on the list itself. >>>>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. 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You can reach >>>>>>>>>>>> mark at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com>> and your >>>>>>>>>>>> owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >>>>>>>>>>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com><mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>> >>>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>>>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/><http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/>> >>>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>>>> send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>>. >>>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>. >>>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries><https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>>. >>>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout><https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>>. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Janina Sajka >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Linux Foundation Fellow >>>>>>>>>>> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org >>>>>>>>>>> <http://a11y.org/> <http://a11y.org/ <http://a11y.org/>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative >>>>>>>>>>> (WAI) >>>>>>>>>>> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/wai/apa >>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.w3.org/wai/apa><http://www.w3.org/wai/apa >>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.w3.org/wai/apa>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>>>>>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this >>>>>>>>>>> list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please >>>>>>>>>>> contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on >>>>>>>>>>> the list itself. >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach >>>>>>>>>>> mark at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com>> and your owner >>>>>>>>>>> is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com><mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>> >>>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/><http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>>>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/>> >>>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>>> send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>>. >>>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to >>>>>>>>>>> macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>. >>>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries><https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>>. >>>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout><https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>>. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>>>>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this >>>>>>>>>> list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please >>>>>>>>>> contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the >>>>>>>>>> list itself. >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach >>>>>>>>>> mark at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com>> and your owner >>>>>>>>>> is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com><mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>> >>>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/><http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/>> >>>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>>> send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>>. >>>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>. >>>>>>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries><https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>>. >>>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout><https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>>. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>>>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, >>>>>>>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact >>>>>>>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list >>>>>>>>> itself. >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach >>>>>>>>> mark at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com>and your owner is >>>>>>>>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>>>>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >>>>>>>>> >>>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/><http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>>>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/>> >>>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, >>>>>>>>> send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>>. >>>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>. >>>>>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries><https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>>. >>>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout><https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>>. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, >>>>>>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact >>>>>>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list >>>>>>>> itself. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach >>>>>>>> mark at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is >>>>>>>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>>>>>> --- >>>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Janina Sajka >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Linux Foundation Fellow >>>>>>> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org >>>>>>> <http://a11y.org/> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) >>>>>>> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures >>>>>>> http://www.w3.org/wai/apa <http://www.w3.org/wai/apa> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> -- >>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, >>>>>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact >>>>>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list >>>>>>> itself. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark >>>>>>> at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara >>>>>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>>>>> --- >>>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> >>>>>> Janina Sajka >>>>>> >>>>>> Linux Foundation Fellow >>>>>> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org >>>>>> >>>>>> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) >>>>>> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa >>>>>> >>>>>> -- >>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>>> >>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>>> >>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark >>>>>> at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara >>>>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>>> >>>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> >>>>>> --- >>>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send >>>>>> an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>>>> >>>>> >>>>> -- >>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>> >>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>>> >>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark >>>>> at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com >>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com >>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com>> and your owner is >>>>> Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com>> >>>>> >>>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/><http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/>> >>>>> --- >>>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. >>>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. >>>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>>>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. >>>> >>>> -- >>>> >>>> Janina Sajka >>>> >>>> Linux Foundation Fellow >>>> Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org >>>> <http://a11y.org/><http://a11y.org/ <http://a11y.org/>> >>>> >>>> The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) >>>> Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa >>>> <http://www.w3.org/wai/apa> >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>> Visionaries list. >>>> >>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>> >>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark >>>> at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara >>>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>> >>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>> --- >>>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>> Visionaries list. >>> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>> >>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: >>> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com> and your owner is Cara >>> Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>> <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >>> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/><http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/>> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>>. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com><mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>>. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries><https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries >>> <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>>. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout><https://groups.google.com/d/optout >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>>. >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >> Visionaries list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: >> macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you >> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > > Janina Sajka > > Linux Foundation Fellow > Executive Chair, Accessibility Workgroup: http://a11y.org > <http://a11y.org/> > > The World Wide Web Consortium (W3C), Web Accessibility Initiative (WAI) > Chair, Accessible Platform Architectures http://www.w3.org/wai/apa > <http://www.w3.org/wai/apa> > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries > list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: > macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com> and your owner is Cara > Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com > <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com > <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries > <https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries>. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout > <https://groups.google.com/d/optout>. -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: macvisionaries+modera...@googlegroups.com and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
