That has to be frustrating! Using an apple keyboard with a apple product and it still doesn’t work? That is not good, I use a 3rd party keyboard also, called baton wireless keyboard on amazon. It’s only 10 bucks, and works great. It was originally designed for android, but I rolled the dice and got lucky. Bought 3 of them since they were so cheap, it works with my iPhone and both appleTV4K’s. The rodder option I select is direct touch, and follow focus, and they both work, I only use vertical navigation when I want to go 1 item at a time. I would report this to apple accessibility, or maybe join beta users to report. I actually have a public beta group where we all discuss issues like this. I don’t want to break any rules, so I won’t post the info here, but anyone who is running a public beta can email me for the info kliph...@icloud.com <mailto:kliph...@icloud.com> BTW, my cafe is in northwest FL where I live. Good luck
> On Mar 14, 2018, at 6:44 PM, Cara Quinn <caraqu...@caraquinn.com> wrote: > > Hi Kliphton, > > thanks very much. I sure appreciate the apology and the assistance too. :) > Hopefully I did not come off too strongly either. It’s not always easy to > gage tone in email. > > Yeah, that must be really obnoxious when customers are kind of disregarding > the fact that you are a business and need to make some money so you can keep > that going. Serious kudos to you for being in the restaurant business! You > rock! :) where is your cafe?… > > As for the keyboard, I have Apple BT keyboards (both the second and third > gen) I am currently using the third gen with the Apple TV. > > After reading your earlier note, I did a Google search to see if I could find > anything out about this and I did find a tip on an Apple Vis forum about > switching the rotor to ‘Follow Focus’ so I tried switching the rotor to this > via the remote and I was able to get the arrow keys to work for the four > directions but only if the Voiceover keys were held down or locked. > > Unfortunately, in this configuration, I cannot then use the enter key to > choose options on the Apple TV home screen without then needing to turn off > Voiceover. > > What rotor option are you using? > > this concerns me greatly, as a blind user should not need to press three keys > at a time (control option and an arrow) and need to use two hands vs one to > do what a sighted user can do with only one key press. I.E. If you turn off > Voiceover, all you need to do is simply press an arrow key and the cursor > moves there. When you get where you need to go, you simply press enter and > the action is done. > > Why should a user with a disability need to be using two hands, pressing > multiple keys and then also need to toggle VO off simply to accomplish > navigation by way of the keyboard. > > This is different from the Mac where Voiceover is meant to avoid key > conflicts. So in this case, this appears to just be arbitrary. -Especially > since keyboard navigation has worked so easily and simply for both sighted > and visually impaired customers alike until now. > > Am I doing something wrong? This is supposed to be an easy, enjoyable and > streamlined experience. Yes?… > > So are you saying that there is an option that is actually allowing the > arrows and enter key to work as they do with VO off? > > Thanks Kliphton, any other suggestions you can offer would be fantastic! > > Have an awesome evening! > > Cheers! > > Cara > > On Mar 14, 2018, at 3:19 PM, Kliphton Miller <kliph...@icloud.com> wrote: > > Hello, sorry about that statement of some people don’t like change. I run my > own cafe, and those customers sometime get under my skin complaining about > price change, expecting everything to be free. Anyway, I am using a Logitech > k811 BT keyboard, I don’t know if the model matter. As for changing rodder > options, I do it with the Siri remote, not with keyboard. But it still gets > the job done. What keyboard are you trying to use? Again, sorry for the > general statement, meant no disrespect. > >> On Mar 14, 2018, at 11:06 AM, Cara Quinn <caraqu...@caraquinn.com> wrote: >> >> Hey Kliphton, >> >> Thanks for your note. I’m not sure if you’ve read the entire thread so far >> before posting this but I’ve actually tried changing the rotor settings via >> the keyboard and nothing seems to happen. >> >> I’ve even tried using the remote to change the rotor while using the >> keyboard and the keyboard behavior does not change a bit. >> >> So I would sure be happy if you can come back and explain exactly how you >> are making this work. You’d be helping make my life a whole lot easier, so I >> would really dig it! :) >> >> thanks very much. >> >> Now, as for the cliches about people, please chill out on it. Not just >> speaking for myself here, but pretty much everyone here on this list, just >> in the mere fact of being here says that there is a certain adventurous >> spirit among folks here. >> >> So saying that people dislike change is way too general and kind of a cop >> out don’t you think?… :) >> >> Many of us here are early adopters of a lot of technologies, as I am sure >> you are also. >> >> Anyway, we are all welcome to our opinions here and put simply, change >> depending on why it happens is not necessarily always a good or smart thing. >> Personally, having designed UI myself, advised large audiences of UX >> designers on good UI and UX design, and also having the pleasure and >> privilege of being able to work with absolute experts in the field, I have >> some thoughts and opinions on this, which I will stand by. -For now at >> least. :) If someone wants to show me I’ve made a mistake etc, then that’s >> cool too! :) No worries, we all do it from time to time… >> >> Anyway, thanks for your note, please please please let me know how you are >> managing to get your BT keyboard arrow keys to work the way you are >> mentioning. I will be very appreciative. >> >> thanks bunches Kliphton, and have a great day! >> >> Cheers! >> >> Cara >> >> On Mar 14, 2018, at 5:51 AM, Kliphton Miller <kliph...@icloud.com> wrote: >> >> Few things here. The blu tooth keyboard for me works just fine, and I use 2 >> different ones. The key is, making sure your router is set to direct touch, >> then you can navigate any direction you want, even entering text. And I >> have been using the appleTV4 since it’s 1st release, now using a appleTV4K, >> and it works fine with my bt keyboard also. In regards to fast forwarding >> and rewinding, I have no issue there either, this goes with trial and error >> though. Your router must be set to follow focus, and you will have no >> issues performing fast forward or rewind. As for the music app, I again >> make sure the rotter is set to the corresponding setting, and things should >> work as normal. People don’t like change, and sometimes this keeps them >> from exploring options because things are done differently, but exploring >> options will grant you a pleasant surprise. >> JMO >>> On Mar 13, 2018, at 12:23 PM, Cara Quinn <caraqu...@caraquinn.com> wrote: >>> >>> Phil, I completely agree with you in regard to accessibility on the Apple >>> TV 4th Gen. >>> >>> In terms of day-to-day enjoyment and ease of use, in my opinion, the >>> accessibility on the 4th Gen has gone way way way down. >>> >>> There are three main areas where I find this to be true most. >>> >>> The first is in the squirreliness of the use of the menu button to enable / >>> disable VO in certain circumstances such as when in Music. I.E. I will find >>> that on more than one occasion, VO will either not turn on with the usual >>> triple press of the menu button, or once VO is on, I will not be able to >>> leave the Now Playing screen in Music to go back to the Apple TV Home >>> screen. >>> >>> I have seen this issue in other Apple apps as well, but it is intermittent. >>> I have more than one Siri remote so I have also checked to see that both >>> remotes work properly and they do. So this is an issue with the Apple TV >>> 4th Gen with VO apparently. >>> >>> secondly, Rewinding or fast forwarding when watching video content can be >>> absolutely excruciatingly tedious depending on which video apps you might >>> be using. Hulu in particular can be utterly horrible for this. Yes, I know >>> that this is a third party situation, but this reflects how poorly the >>> touch pad on the Siri remote behaves both with and without VO. I have had >>> many complaints from sighted folks on this as well. -And furthermore, if >>> you go and read reviews on the Siri remote on the Apple Store app, almost >>> every single review is incredibly negative. -And I personally couldn’t >>> agree more. This is actually the worst Apple interface I have ever used by >>> far. >>> >>> Lastly, (and this is the major one for me) the bluetooth keyboard support >>> has suffered utterly when using Voiceover. I.e. apparently, the >>> accessibility team has tried to make the experience of using a bluetooth >>> keyboard with VO on the Apple TV, behave more like that of using VO on a >>> Mac. >>> >>> Unfortunately, in this case, this has severely crippled accessibility in >>> this regard. What I mean is this; in the past, when using a bt keyboard >>> with an Apple TV, the arrows would move the cursor in their respective four >>> directions on the screen. Now, if you turn on VO with a bt keyboard paired, >>> the arrows do not work this way. The most obvious issue is that you cannot >>> move straight down on the screen, you need to move left to right . This is >>> a huge problem in that it is not only more cumbersome to get where you need >>> to go, but there are actually some cases where you cannot get there at all >>> using the keyboard. You actually need to stop trying to navigate with the >>> keyboard and use the remote to move the cursor. >>> >>> Now, if this were a design issue across the board for both sighted and >>> blind users, I would simply question Apple’s UX design choice. -However, >>> this is not across the board. This is purely an accessibility design issue. >>> If you turn off Voiceover, the bluetooth keyboard goes back to working as >>> it always has, with the arrow keys working normally. >>> >>> If you then turn on Voiceover, the keyboard stops working as it should and >>> goes back to performing as I have been mentioning above. >>> >>> So, instead of actually assisting blind users in having an easier and more >>> enjoyable experience with the Apple TV, now it is actually made worse and >>> more difficult in several situations. >>> >>> I am curious to hear others’ experiences / opinions on these issues. Have >>> you seen them? What do you think? >>> >>> Thanks so much and hope you have a great day! >>> >>> Cheers! >>> >>> Cara >>> --- >>> iOS design and development - LookTel.com >>> --- >>> View my Online Portfolio at: >>> >>> http://www.onemodelplace.com/models/Cara-Quinn >>> >>> Follow me on Twitter! >>> >>> https://twitter.com/ModelCara >>> >>> On Mar 13, 2018, at 7:53 AM, Phil Halton <philh...@gmail.com> wrote: >>> >>> I don’t understand how you can say that the accessibility with the fourth >>> GEN is fine when you don’t even own one. Am I wrong or did you say you have >>> the third GEN and then speculated about the fourth GEN saying it’s >>> accessibility was fine. Forgive me if I have misunderstood, but this is >>> the very definition of “fake news“. Actually, I just upgraded from the >>> third GEN to the fourth GEN and I don’t find accessibility to be find at >>> all. In fact, it’s kind of clunky in certain ways. No doubt the fourth GEN >>> has its advantages especially with the Siri remote, but I kind of prefer >>> the third GEN in certain areas. Oh well, I just had to chime in because you >>> really blew my mind with that statement. >>> >>> Sent from my IPhone >>> >>> >>>> On Mar 12, 2018, at 12:06 PM, E.T. <ancient.ali...@icloud.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> I still have the 3rd generation so am limited to what apps are on it. I >>>> can access all of my content that is in the iTunes library very easily. >>>> Sometimes I use other apps but with a 4th gen Apple TV I would likely use >>>> even more of it. Accessibility is fine though some 3rd party apps may fall >>>> short. >>>> >>>> From E.T.'s Keyboard... >>>> ancient.ali...@icloud.com >>>> Many believe that we have been visited >>>> in the past. What if it were true? >>>> >>>>> On 3/12/2018 8:07 AM, Nickus de Vos wrote: >>>>> Hi all >>>>> I’ve been thinking to get a Apple TV for a while and now a friend is >>>>> selling his 4K HDR, a 64 GB one at a pretty good price. >>>>> I have no previous experience with Apple TV, so my question, what do you >>>>> blind voiceover users use your Apple TV’s for? >>>>> Do you play games, do you listen to music, do you use video streaming >>>>> services like Youtube, Netflix and Amazon Prime? >>>>> Is apps like Youtube, Netflix and Amazon Prime Video even accessible with >>>>> Voiceover, those are the 3 apps I mainly stream video from. >>>>> Basically, will I get any joy from a Apple TV or will I only buy it for >>>>> the rest of the family? >>>>> Nickus >>>> >>>> -- >>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>> Visionaries list. >>>> >>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or >>>> if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the >>>> owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>>> >>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark >>>> at: mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >>>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>>> >>>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>>> --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google >>>> Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >>>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>> Visionaries list. >>> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>> >>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: >>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >>> >>> -- >>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>> Visionaries list. >>> >>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >>> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners >>> or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >>> >>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: >>> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >>> caraqu...@caraquinn.com >>> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >>> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >>> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >>> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >> Visionaries list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: >> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >> caraqu...@caraquinn.com >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >> Visionaries list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: >> mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at >> caraqu...@caraquinn.com >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >> "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. >> To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. >> Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. >> For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries > list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: > mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries > list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: > mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. > For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout. -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. Visit this group at https://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries. For more options, visit https://groups.google.com/d/optout.
