Not to perpetuate the earlier discussion, but for me, moving from top to bottom of the mailbox list is accomplished by pressing CMD-Option plus up or down arrow to move to the top or bottom respectively. Just mentioning this in case that turns out to be the case for Kevin as well. Cheers, Donna
> On Jan 8, 2023, at 4:36 PM, Bradford Snyder <wb...@swbell.net> wrote: > > Hi Kevin, > > When in the Mail app on your Mac, you can easily move to the top or bottom of > the mailbox list by pressing the Option key, then use the Up Arrow to move to > the first item in the mailbox list, or press the down Arrow to move to the > last item in the mailbox list. > You can move between individual items in the list by simply pressing the > up/down arrow keys. > If you choose to interact with the mailbox list, you will find that > navigation is different, and you will need to use the VO modifier, along with > arrow keys. > > HTH. > > - Brad - > > > > On Jan 8, 2023, at 13:47, Kevin Gibbs <kevj...@gmail.com> wrote: > > Guys, > > I’ll jump back in here. I tried the stuff we’re talking about and here is > what happens for me. > > First, keep in mind that I am a low vision person who can observe certain > outcomes on screen. > > 2. This all started in my Google mailbox within Apple Mail on an M1 MacBook > Pro running Monterey. When I press and hold the function key and then press > right arrow, I do see a change on screen. The change is that the previously > selected e-mail in the inbox is no longer selected. I’m not exactly clear > what happens. Further, nothing is spoken. > > 3. If I hold down the FN key and the VO key, (CAPS LOCK in my case,) > pressing right arrow appears to move me to the top most e-mail in the > mailbox. A subsequent press of FN VO left arrow appears to bring me to the > bottom most or most recent e-mail in the mailbox. In each of these last two > cases, the e-mail is spoken when it becomes the selected e-mail. So, it > appears that I need to hold fn and VO and press the left or right arrow to > get two the bottom or top. Curiously, up and down arrows don’t appear to do > anything in this specific mailbox case. I haven’t tried any of this within a > document or anywhere else. The whole deal was how to move around quickly in > mailboxes without disturbing the unread status of intervening messages. > > I’ll say that my query has been satisfactorily addressed for now. > > > Thanks for everything, > Kevinb > > >> On Jan 8, 2023, at 12:15 PM, Brad Snyder <wb...@swbell.net >> <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote: >> >> Hello Donna and all, >> >> What you are experiencing has to do with the behavior of VoiceOver >> navigation within a specific application, such as Mail, TextEdit, or other >> native Mac applications. >> This is a separate issue from modifying the behavior of the arrow keys while >> holding down only the Fn key. >> >> - Brad - >> >> On Jan 8, 2023, at 11:53, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries >> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> >> wrote: >> >> Thanks, Michael and Dave. Very glad that you can reproduce what I’m >> seeing. Dave, I’ve used the Mac long enough that I don’t go into keyboard >> help all that often. What you said about the longer explanation is >> interesting, I hadn’t stuck around in Help long enough to hear all that. I >> think I just figured out the VO thing by experimenting until I found the key >> combination that worked. >> Cheers, >> Donna >> >> >>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 11:40 AM, Dave Carlson <dgcarlson0...@gmail.com >>> <mailto:dgcarlson0...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>> >>> I’ve noticed a subtle difference when experimenting in the VO keyboard help >>> mode. >>> >>> With just Fn and the left/right the announcement is Home and end, as >>> reported. >>> >>> However when holding Fn plus VO and pressing left arrow, a moment after >>> saying home it will also announce “Go to beginning, moves the cursor to the >>> beginning” and similar additional information for the right arrow. >>> >>> I think there is a difference in behavior for these two scenarios that may >>> indeed affect how it works inside documents, etc. >>> >>> >>> Dave Carlson >>> Farfar, Oregonian, Engineer, Woodworker, Musician >>> dgcarlson0...@gmail.com <mailto:dgcarlson0...@gmail.com> >>> >>> >>> >>> >>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 9:29 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries >>> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> >>> wrote: >>> >>> Hi Michael, >>> >>> So if I go into keyboard help and press those keys—exactly as you >>> describe—VO does say Home, End etc. But if I press FN plus an arrow key >>> without the VO modifier while in a document, webpage etc,nothing happens. >>> Cheers, >>> Donna >>> >>> >>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 11:23 AM, Michael Babcock <michael@payown.media >>>> <mailto:michael@payown.media>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Hi Donna! >>>> >>>> To verify, when you press and hold FN, while pressing left or right in >>>> keyboard help mode with VO+K your saying your computer doesn’t say home or >>>> end unless you press the VO keys as well? >>>> >>>> That is strange, on this MacBook Air, I can do the following steps: >>>> >>>> 1. Press VO+K to enter keyboard help mode >>>> 2. Press and hold the FN key, bottom left key >>>> 3. While still pressing FN, press left or right and I hear Home or End >>>> respectively. >>>> >>>> Have a beautiful day. >>>> >>>> >>>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 9:07 AM, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries >>>>> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Brad,. I am really tired of the obnoxious behavior you display on this >>>>> list. Either learn to be civil, or get off the list. >>>>> >>>>> I can reproduce this behavior flawlessly, and without exception. Just >>>>> pressing the FN key does NOTHING! So, you can be rude all you want, but >>>>> I’m going to post my experience as there is probably someone else out >>>>> there who experiences the same thing, as I don’t that my Mac is an >>>>> anomaly. I don’t doubt that your Mac behaves as you describe, but mine, >>>>> and undoubtedly others, do not. So please don’t dismiss what I write out >>>>> of hand. >>>>> Donna >>>>> >>>>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 10:41 AM, Brad Snyder <wb...@swbell.net >>>>>> <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Hi Donna, >>>>>> You can disagree all you want, but the VO key is not necessary to change >>>>>> the behavior of the arrow keys when using the Fn key. >>>>>> >>>>>> - Brad - >>>>>> >>>>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 10:11, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries >>>>>> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Sorry, Brad, but I have to disagree. When I just press the FN key >>>>>> nothing happens. When I press the VO modifier, the keys behave as you >>>>>> describe. >>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>> Donna >>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 9:27 AM, Bradford Snyder <wb...@swbell.net >>>>>>> <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Changing the behavior of the arrow keys is not a function of VoiceOver, >>>>>>> therefore it is not necessary to use the VO modifier in order to use >>>>>>> the alternate actions of the arrow keys as described in my original >>>>>>> response. >>>>>>> You can test this by turning on Keyboard Help, then press the different >>>>>>> arrow keys while holding down only the Fn key. >>>>>>> Whether or not the VO modifier is used along with the Fn key makes no >>>>>>> matter. The actions of the arrow keys will be the same. >>>>>>> >>>>>>> - Brad - >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> >>>>>>> On Jan 8, 2023, at 08:55, 'Donna Goodin' via MacVisionaries >>>>>>> <macvisionaries@googlegroups.com >>>>>>> <mailto:macvisionaries@googlegroups.com>> wrote: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Just one addition to this, for me to use these commands, I also have to >>>>>>> hold down the VO keys. So, VO-FN-right arrow for home, etc. >>>>>>> Cheers, >>>>>>> Donna >>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jan 7, 2023, at 4:59 PM, Bradford Snyder <wb...@swbell.net >>>>>>>> <mailto:wb...@swbell.net>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you hold down the Fn key, the arrow keys become the following: >>>>>>>> Left Arrow becomes the Home key. >>>>>>>> Right Arrow becomes the End key. >>>>>>>> Up Arrow becomes the Page Up key. >>>>>>>> Down Arrow becomes the Page Down key. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> HTH. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> - Brad - >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> On Jan 7, 2023, at 16:41, Kevin Gibbs <kevj...@gmail.com >>>>>>>> <mailto:kevj...@gmail.com>> wrote: >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Sometimes, I don’t have my full extended keyboard and have to type on >>>>>>>> just my MacBook Pro keyboard. But I don’t have Page Up/Down or Home >>>>>>>> and End keys. How does one compensate for this? >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Thanks, >>>>>>>> Kevin >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> -- >>>>>>>> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >>>>>>>> Visionaries list. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, >>>>>>>> or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact >>>>>>>> the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list >>>>>>>> itself. >>>>>>>> >>>>>>>> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. 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You can reach mark at: >>> mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you >>> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >>> >>> The archives for this list can be searched at: >>> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >>> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> >>> --- >>> You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups >>> "MacVisionaries" group. >>> To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an >>> email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >>> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >>> To view this discussion on the web visit >>> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/85A37349-20B0-4A77-9F80-A1FF65CEC3C1%40gmail.com >>> >>> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/85A37349-20B0-4A77-9F80-A1FF65CEC3C1%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. >> >> >> -- >> The following information is important for all members of the Mac >> Visionaries list. >> >> If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if >> you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or >> moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. >> >> Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. 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You can reach mark at: >> mk...@ucla.edu <mailto:mk...@ucla.edu> and your owner is Cara Quinn - you >> can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com <mailto:caraqu...@caraquinn.com> >> >> The archives for this list can be searched at: >> http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ >> <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> >> --- >> You received this message because you are subscribed to a topic in the >> Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. >> To unsubscribe from this topic, visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/topic/macvisionaries/LBCqTelSKPA/unsubscribe >> <https://groups.google.com/d/topic/macvisionaries/LBCqTelSKPA/unsubscribe>. >> To unsubscribe from this group and all its topics, send an email to >> macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com >> <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. >> To view this discussion on the web visit >> https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/C832167C-285E-401E-92E6-0F6E6F8216C4%40swbell.net >> >> <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/C832167C-285E-401E-92E6-0F6E6F8216C4%40swbell.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries > list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: > mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/42826A18-BE0C-4852-8548-63F9B35D7BBF%40gmail.com > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/42826A18-BE0C-4852-8548-63F9B35D7BBF%40gmail.com?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. > > > -- > The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries > list. > > If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if > you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or > moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. > > Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: > mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at > caraqu...@caraquinn.com > > The archives for this list can be searched at: > http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ > <http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/> > --- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an > email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com > <mailto:macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com>. > To view this discussion on the web visit > https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/5912AB2E-D052-47BD-95E6-5587FE76EA34%40swbell.net > > <https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/5912AB2E-D052-47BD-95E6-5587FE76EA34%40swbell.net?utm_medium=email&utm_source=footer>. -- The following information is important for all members of the Mac Visionaries list. If you have any questions or concerns about the running of this list, or if you feel that a member's post is inappropriate, please contact the owners or moderators directly rather than posting on the list itself. Your Mac Visionaries list moderator is Mark Taylor. You can reach mark at: mk...@ucla.edu and your owner is Cara Quinn - you can reach Cara at caraqu...@caraquinn.com The archives for this list can be searched at: http://www.mail-archive.com/macvisionaries@googlegroups.com/ --- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To unsubscribe from this group and stop receiving emails from it, send an email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. To view this discussion on the web visit https://groups.google.com/d/msgid/macvisionaries/3574A650-31A2-4C01-9C6F-8173F0C9A01E%40me.com.
