Hi Anne, I think you have hit the nail on the head. THe problem for most people who are using windows and windows screen readers is they have received some form of training. I for example since switching to Microsoft Office 2007 have struggled to accomplish a lot of formatting tasks. My employer can train me how to use the office suite, but unless I receive training from someone who uses Window-Eyes as well, it would not be as effective. I do fortunately use a Mac for nearly everything at work, so I can use Textedit and MS Word to get most things done. Not an elegant solution, but I have not had time to find the correct training. My point is that understanding VoiceOver is one part of the puzzle, but iWorks like most any office suite will take some form of training, whether that be reading a manual or taking a formalized training course. If Kevin had that opportunity, he probably would have a much easier time of it. I suspect though with a fairly good understanding of VOiceOver, it would be easier for a sighted trainer to teach a blind person how to use the iWorks suite just because of how VoiceOver interacts with the applications and OS. Of course what do I know, I just hack along and figure stuff out. :)
Scott On Feb 5, 2011, at 3:24 AM, Anne Robertson wrote: > Hello Florian, > On 4 Feb 2011, at 23:51, f10r14n wrote: >> >> >> As a matter of fact, I agree with both sides on some account. Before >> you shoot me for it let me explain. >> First, Kevin's side. He has been trying to transition to the mac, for >> example for his school needs I think. For this, he has tried and >> failed to do the tasks he could do on Windows. Of course this could be >> due to infamiliarity with the mac system, however Mac is supposed to >> be intuitive and easy to use. Then, why is it so hard to do what he is >> trying to do? > Because what he is trying to do is more like professional use of the Mac, not > the sort of thing most people do at home, such as using Mail, Safari, iTunes, > Address Book, etc. > > I doubt that anyone using MS Office learned all the various ways of > formatting documents professionally without some training. > >> Look, I understand that knowing a system is required before you can >> actually claim it doesn't work the right way, but I think that six >> months is a lot of time to learn voiceOver and I happen to know he has >> been at this for hours before even considering doing the episode. > As I said above, iWork is a professional package and you need a thorough > knowledge of VoiceOver and iWork to make good use of it. > >> The way I see it on this thread is that he is requesting aid in fixing >> his supposed inexperience , but all he gets back is flames about him >> critisizing voiceOver without knowing it. If there's something that >> scares away a newbie, it is that imnsho. >> > Kevin is getting help with iWork now. He simply didn't ask the right > questions in the right places before doing his podcast. A vague question > about how to use iWork is not helpful, whereas a request for help performing > a specific task makes it much easier to know what a person is looking for. > > iWork is complex, and it would require a whole book to explain how to use it. > In fact, that's exactly what comes with it — a whole book, and that's for > sighted users! > >> If i knew how to fix these issues, I would write them up. But >> apparently noone here knows a foolproof solution to the issues >> described both above and in the podcast. If i am wrong kindly correct >> me but this is my current view on the situation. >> > You are, in fact, wrong. Most of Kevin's issues have been, or can be, > resolved. But this is not stuff for beginners, and many of the old hands at > VoiceOver are no longer on lists like this because there are too many > messages repeating the same questions and they haven't the time to deal with > them. > > Of course, new users need to ask the same questions that all new users ask, > but some people are not teachers and don't want to be bothered. > > I think the real problem is the lack of formal training available for the Mac > in the US. > > Here in France, we are slowly putting together a training network for > VoiceOver and people are getting the help that they need. > > Cheers, > > Anne > > -- > You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups > "MacVisionaries" group. > To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. > To unsubscribe from this group, send email to > macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. > For more options, visit this group at > http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en. > -- You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "MacVisionaries" group. To post to this group, send email to macvisionaries@googlegroups.com. To unsubscribe from this group, send email to macvisionaries+unsubscr...@googlegroups.com. For more options, visit this group at http://groups.google.com/group/macvisionaries?hl=en.
