Hello root user is not the absolute power any more, please dont forget SELINUX and the MLS "Multi Level Seurity" you can read more on
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Selinux On Thu, Mar 12, 2009 at 6:15 PM, Mark <wolfm...@gmail.com> wrote: > On Wed, Mar 11, 2009 at 11:24 PM, Farrell J. McGovern > <farrell.mcgov...@gmail.com> wrote: > > ScottW wrote: > >> The Mac and *nix world needs to stop gloating about their clean record > so far and keep an eye out for what is to come. Dues to the learning curve > of the OS, the users were more "enlightened" than the common computer user, > but now these are more wide spread and the common user will be using them. > The conspiracy theory people say that Antivirus companies are the ones > making most of the viruses so that they have a product to sell, well there > is a market out there just waiting to be tapped. Norton AV for Mac is on > the shelves even though there is only really 1 documented virus, and people > buy it. > >> > >> The good ole saying: "The devil's greatest accomplishment was to > convince everyone he does not exist"... well the Linux virus does not exist. > >> > > You are, of course, making the classic mistake of not understanding > > security on computer operating systems. Popularity has little to do with > > how vulnerable a system is. > > Yeah, tell that to celebrities. I'm sure they just *love* the stalkers > and paparazzi. When's the last time *you* were surrounded by dozens of > photographers documenting the worst moments of your life? > > Anyway, it's not about "popularity", it's about payoff. Any time > there's something to gain (Windows boxes), people will keep trying. > When there's nothing to gain (Linux boxes), there's no motivation. > > More attacks=more vulnerability. The law of averages says that the > more attacks there are, the more likely that sooner or later one will > be successful. > > Someone who has their home Windows machine set to autologin and no > firewall or antivirus software but uses a gateway, never uses Outlook > or IE and never opens messages (never mind attachments) from someone > they don't know is much less vulnerable than someone who has every > possible security aspect in place on their laptop (any OS) that is > exposed to open networks and/or leaves their computer unattended for a > few moments. Everything is relative. > > *You* are the one who clearly does not understand computer security. > > > > > Fact: Windows XP is about 12 years old, Vista/Windows 7 maybe 5. Unix > > is 40+ years old. > > > > Fact: Windows is 30+ years old, and what you're calling Unix is every > bit as much a progression/assortment of different OSs/kernels as > Windows. Your assertion is totally invalid. > > > Face: Unix was designed for a mult-user, multi-processing environment, > > Windows was designed for a single user, single application at a time > > environment, it has had multi-user and multi-processing added on to it. > > > > Once again, your assertions are totally incorrect. Unix started with > single-user mainframes, long before the Internet or any kind of remote > networking or simultaneous multi-user environment. Even once they went > mult-user, local multi-user setups with tightly controlled physical > access are a very different thing from the worldwide network of today > (~1995 and on, only the last 15 years). As for multi-user and > multi-processing, the former is only incidentally related to network > security, and the latter not at all. > > > Thus, most everything that can affect Windows today was probably seen > > and corrected on the architectural level decades ago in Unix. > > Totally untrue. The issues of concern are mostly related to network > access, not multiple logins. See above. > > > Even the > > simplest thing of making the user work in a non-privileged workspace is > > one of the basic things that Unix has done for decades, while it is a > > relatively new idea in Windows. Thus, if you compromise the workspace, > > you don't compromise the system. > > > > Unix was not designed for personal computers, it was designed for > room- and building-filling mainframes and minicomputers for > governments, universities and large security-minded businesses. You > are comparing apples to oranges. While Linux is "Unix-like", it is NOT > Unix and has to be much more user-friendly, which Unix is very much > not. The owner of a Linux box has to also be the administrator, while > a Unix user seldom has to deal with the administration side of it. Any > time you design an OS for the masses, there is no escaping the > necessity of compromising security for usability and flexibility. > > > > > Next, you have the fact that to make things really fast in Windows, you > > have graphics primitives in the kernel. This means that to compromise > > the entire system, all you need to do is compromise a graphics > > routine...and as almost everything is graphical in Windows...compromise > > the Browser, you can own the system...compromise the mail reader, you > > can own the system...compromise an editor you can own the > > system...compromise an ERROR MESSAGE, and you can own the system. > > You're talking theory, and making it sound much easier than it > actually is. In reality, such attacks seldom actually work, and they > require far more preparation and work than you are willing to admit. > > > > > With Unix, very few things can access the kernel. If you compromise the > > Browser, you may compromise the user's workspace, but the system remains > > compromised. > > > > Again, Linux is *NOT* Unix. Regardless, since no one is putting > serious effort into developing viruses and such for it (there's > exactly zero payoff), you're comparing apples to oranges. I think you > left the "un" off the last word there, but again that's theory, not > reality. According to the fanboys, Linux doesn't crash, but I see it > happen all the time. Not just applications; the whole machine crashes > and has to be rebooted. > > > Generally, in Windows it's a single set to compromise the entire > > system...on Unix, it takes usually two more more steps, first you must > > compromise the userspace, then you must compromise the kernel. > > > > ...and you make it sound so easy to compromise Windows, and so hard to > compromise *Linux* (you keep saying Unix when what you really mean is > Linux...). The reality is somewhat different, and the ease of security > breach is directly related to the operator/owner's actions and > settings rather than the OS. I've been running Windows without > firewall or antivirus software for many years (the cure is worse than > the disease) and no one has successfully attacked me yet. In spite of > some empty threats and futile attempts... > > > Ultimately, it takes a lot more work to compromise a Unix system than a > > Windows system. > > Only because of all the freely available software out there that > specifically targets Windows, as opposed to practically nothing for > *nix. The "security tools" for *nix don't count, since the same people > who are writing those are also patching the holes. That's about as > trustworthy as those Windoze firewall apps that fake attacks ("we just > intecepted xxx attacks"... yeah, right!) to dupe gullible consumers > into buying the pay version. > > > And that makes Unix and systems derived from Unix > > inherently more secure than Windows. > > Unix, and Linux as well, come from a very different place than > Windows. *nix comes from a scientific, high-security background, while > Windows (and DOS before it) from the start was aimed at usability for > consumers and the less technically savvy. Bearing that in mind, the > difference in inherent security is remarkably small. > > Mark > _______________________________________________ > maemo-users mailing list > maemo-users@maemo.org > https://lists.maemo.org/mailman/listinfo/maemo-users > -- ______________________________ http://geek2live.blogspot.com/ http://www.siteheed.com - You pick the level of your suffering yourself - Budha- - There is nothing noble in being superior to some other man. 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