At 2:42 AM -0700 2004-11-12, Tierra wrote:
Yes, that is 10% of mem on the first listed process, and yes, I'm tight on ram right now.
Mailman 2.1.x will have eight or nine qrunner processes constantly in memory, but they shouldn't be running unless they have actual work to do.
Depending on what OS you're using, the system may try to keep everything in memory that it can, so as to make maximum use of what is available. Anything that is not currently running is liable to be paged out in favour of other processes, filesystem/disk caching, etc....
On many systems I'm familiar with, it is not at all uncommon to see what appears to be just a few KB "free", but on closer inspection you discover that most of the memory that is "used" is actually "cache" or "inactive", and therefore available for immediate page-out and re-use by other processes.
Here's a FreeBSD 5.2.1 system I help administer:
USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TT STAT STARTED TIME COMMAND mailman 53524 0.0 0.0 7928 12 ?? Ss Wed02PM 0:00.46 mailmanctl mailman 54142 0.0 1.5 8544 3828 ?? S Wed02PM 0:57.26 VirginRunner mailman 54143 0.0 0.7 7892 1844 ?? S Wed02PM 0:55.32 CommandRunner mailman 54144 0.0 1.7 8592 4252 ?? S Wed02PM 1:03.93 IncomingRunner mailman 54145 0.0 0.4 7892 1064 ?? S Wed02PM 0:00.69 RetryRunner mailman 54146 0.0 0.7 8328 1888 ?? S Wed02PM 0:57.06 NewsRunner mailman 54147 0.0 0.8 8512 2036 ?? S Wed02PM 0:59.44 BounceRunner mailman 54148 0.0 1.1 10180 2784 ?? S Wed02PM 1:18.16 ArchRunner mailman 54149 0.0 1.7 8940 4332 ?? S Wed02PM 1:47.38 OutgoingRunner
On this machine, the first few lines of "top" shows:
last pid: 75984; load averages: 0.00, 0.00, 0.00 up 10+08:30:45 02:13:03 79 processes: 3 running, 76 sleeping CPU states: 14.3% user, 0.0% nice, 23.8% system, 0.0% interrupt, 61.9% idle Mem: 132M Active, 20M Inact, 60M Wired, 6280K Cache, 34M Buf, 25M Free Swap: 513M Total, 73M Used, 440M Free, 14% Inuse
Here's a Debian Linux (kernel 2.4.26) machine I help administer:
USER PID %CPU %MEM VSZ RSS TTY STAT START TIME COMMAND mailman 5130 0.0 0.1 5828 2088 ? S Jul06 0:00 mailmanctl mailman 5131 2.0 1.6 54028 34896 ? S Jul06 3807:00 ArchRunner mailman 5132 0.3 0.7 25740 15252 ? S Jul06 606:43 BounceRunner mailman 5133 0.0 0.7 19328 15608 ? S Jul06 73:38 CommandRunner mailman 5134 0.1 0.7 18696 16040 ? S Jul06 305:05 IncomingRunner mailman 5135 0.0 0.3 9212 6840 ? S Jul06 43:38 NewsRunner mailman 5136 2.4 1.1 25316 22816 ? S Jul06 4528:36 OutgoingRunner mailman 5137 0.1 0.7 16828 14500 ? S Jul06 307:12 VirginRunner mailman 5138 0.0 0.0 9624 1848 ? S Jul06 0:03 RetryRunner mailman 19970 0.0 0.0 10184 1592 ? S Aug21 0:00 gate_news
Top shows:
11:16:51 up 129 days, 14:07, 1 user, load average: 0.08, 0.18, 0.22 145 processes: 142 sleeping, 2 running, 1 zombie, 0 stopped CPU states: 71.4% user, 33.0% system, 0.9% nice, 2333.9% idle Mem: 2069316K total, 2020500K used, 48816K free, 53956K buffers Swap: 1951888K total, 191316K used, 1760572K free, 935268K cached
Both of these machines are effectively completely idle at the moment, and yet neither of them has a whole lot of memory that, on first glance, would appear to be free. If you really want to find out whether or not you're tight on memory that is actively being used, with your system thrashing about trying to always free up memory from processes that are fighting for the same resources, you need to use other tools to investigate this matter. One good tool is "iostat", another one is "vmstat".
Looking at that FreeBSD machine again, vmstat shows:
% vmstat 1 20 procs memory page disks faults cpu r b w avm fre flt re pi po fr sr da0 da1 in sy cs us sy id 1 0 0 500148 49132 58 1 0 0 36 95 0 0 363 0 317 2 1 97 0 0 0 500148 49132 5 0 0 0 5 0 0 0 365 0 304 0 4 96 0 0 0 500148 49132 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 357 0 291 0 2 98 0 0 0 500148 49132 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 358 0 284 0 2 98 0 0 0 500148 49132 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 357 0 284 1 2 98 0 0 0 500148 49132 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 361 0 298 1 2 97 0 0 0 500148 49132 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 369 0 312 0 2 98 0 0 0 500148 49132 0 0 0 0 0 0 3 0 369 0 341 0 2 98 0 0 0 500148 49132 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 364 0 296 0 2 98 0 0 0 500148 49132 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 357 0 287 0 2 98 0 0 0 500148 49132 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 361 0 301 2 2 97 0 0 0 500148 49132 0 0 0 0 4 0 9 0 386 0 344 1 2 98 0 0 0 500148 49132 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 367 0 301 1 4 95 0 0 0 500148 49132 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 360 0 288 1 3 96 0 0 0 500148 49132 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 357 0 286 0 2 98 0 0 0 500148 49132 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 361 0 301 0 2 98 0 0 0 500148 49132 0 0 0 0 0 0 2 0 368 0 312 1 2 98 2 0 0 500148 49132 0 0 0 0 1 0 0 0 358 0 290 2 2 96 2 0 0 500148 49132 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 357 0 285 1 3 96 2 0 0 500148 49132 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 358 0 289 0 3 97
Looking at the Linux box, vmstat shows:
% vmstat 1 20 procs memory swap io system cpu r b w swpd free buff cache si so bi bo in cs us sy id 0 0 0 191316 51020 54252 936864 0 0 14 15 9 19 2 10 18 0 0 0 191316 50940 54280 936880 0 0 4 256 251 329 0 0 99 0 0 0 191316 50828 54284 936900 0 0 8 0 263 422 0 0 99 0 0 0 191316 50780 54288 936916 0 0 8 0 241 414 0 1 99 0 0 0 191316 50016 54292 936932 0 0 4 0 216 345 0 1 99 0 0 0 191316 49244 54292 936940 0 0 0 0 195 248 0 0 100 0 0 0 191316 50588 54316 936956 0 0 0 1160 300 644 3 2 95 0 0 0 191316 50516 54328 936968 0 0 8 64 222 252 1 0 99 0 0 0 191316 50360 54344 936996 0 0 24 0 236 324 0 1 99 0 0 0 191316 49708 54352 936980 0 0 16 0 246 433 1 0 98 0 0 0 191316 50364 54360 936992 0 0 12 0 315 466 0 1 99 0 0 0 191316 48820 54376 937004 0 0 0 272 220 314 0 1 99 0 0 0 191316 49112 54380 936936 0 0 4 0 225 343 1 0 99 0 0 0 191316 50836 54388 936920 0 0 4 0 206 304 3 1 96 0 0 0 191316 50772 54388 936932 0 0 0 0 174 171 0 0 100 0 1 0 191316 50728 54392 936944 0 0 12 0 237 435 0 0 100 0 0 0 191316 50696 54412 936956 0 0 0 220 193 221 0 1 99 0 0 0 191316 50640 54416 936968 0 0 8 0 187 120 0 0 100 0 0 0 191316 49928 54416 936984 0 0 0 0 214 362 1 0 99 0 0 0 191316 50576 54416 936992 0 0 0 0 215 344 0 0 99
For the FreeBSD box, look at the columns for "pi" (page in) and "po" (page out). This machine isn't doing any paging at all, which means that there is no memory pressure. It may appear to be short on memory, but that's only because the system is keeping everything in memory that it can, and it hasn't needed to page anything out that it's got currently loaded. You can also look at the columns for "fr" (free) and "sr" (scan rate). The former is "pages freed per second", and the latter is "pages scanned by clock algorithm, per-second". Both fields show that this system is doing very little in either of these categories, and confirms the conclusions drawn from the pi/po columns.
To go any further into this topic, you really have to know more about your OS and how to do proper performance monitoring, analysis, and tuning for it. Of course, that is really beyond the scope of this mailing list.
-- Brad Knowles, <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
"Those who would give up essential Liberty, to purchase a little temporary Safety, deserve neither Liberty nor Safety."
-- Benjamin Franklin (1706-1790), reply of the Pennsylvania
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