That's a never mind.  Turns out I missed the forest while looking at the trees. 
 

the mailman/cgi-bin/'s permissions were fine, but the mode on a directory a 
level or so up were too restrictive to let apache look that deep to read what 
was inside.  a chmod 02775 fixed that and I now can browse to the mailman 
instance.  

Thanks for your ideas and help.  Thanks for a great product.  

-- Hugh 

On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 17:37:50 -0800
Hugh Esco <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:

> It didn't matter.  I backed it out.  
> 
> I then replicated my apache.conf vhost definition as 
> gibberish.validdomain.org, where the vhost file for validdomain includes the 
> first working mailman installation.  
> 
> This time, I got a working listinfo page reporting no lists for 
> gibberish.validdomain.org.  This is so even though I had not and still have 
> not built and configured an instance of mailman as suggested by the apache 
> config file.  
> 
> This suggests to me some relationship between my control of a second level 
> domain, in the case of the working examples, and my efforts to configure for 
> a third level name in the example which is giving me fits.  
> 
> -- Hugh 
> 
> On Tue, 20 Dec 2005 16:48:33 -0800
> Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> 
> > Hugh Esco wrote:
> > >
> > >As an experiment, I'll try the advise for suEXEC.  If it doesn't get me 
> > >anywhere, I'll back it out.  
> > 
> > It doesn't matter whether Apache was compiled with it. If you do NOT
> > have an SuexecUserGroup directive in your virtual host or globally in
> > your Apache configuration, then this is not the issue in your case.
> > 
> > -- 
> > Mark Sapiro <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>       The highway is for gamblers,
> > San Francisco Bay Area, California    better use your sense - B. Dylan
> 
> -- 
> RCK Computer Services 
> http://reclaimedcomputers.ca/
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