I've been using Mailman on Debian for over a decade on dozens of projects.
I've never contributed any code. I've never said a word. I just want to
thank the team for spending thousands of hours creating a free program that
does such an impressive job. Thank you! ~Vince
Vincent F. Heuser, Jr.
Hirsh and Heuser Attorneys
3600 Goldsmith Lane
Louisville, KY 40220
(502) 458-5879
http://www.hirshandheuser.com
[email protected]
----- Original Message -----
From: "R. Diez via Mailman-Users" <[email protected]>
To: "Richard Damon" <[email protected]>
Cc: <[email protected]>
Sent: Friday, February 01, 2019 08:36 AM
Subject: Re: [Mailman-Users] Automatic subscription based on e-mail subject
Perhaps I'm being a bit over dramatic, but it does, in my mind, describe
what you seem to be doing, You come in and say that the list software
isn't working the way you would prefer, but for this conversation,
everyone else needs to change how they use the list so you can
> [...]
You are being a bit over dramatic indeed. I don't pretend that everyone
else should change their ways. And I do look into the archives all the
time. That is what I am trying to optimise away. I just wish Mailman (or
whatever associated component) would help here, like other communication
platforms already do.
Like I said, I cannot subscribe to every list I need to ask a question or
drop a bug report into. I just have not got enough time. I only go through
the mailing list hoops if something is really serious, or if something
really bugs me. Unsurprisingly, bureaucracy barriers do have a negative
effect on communication after all.
And I do care. I am trying to understand what the problem is. I am trying
to convince you guys, because you write mailing list software. This
communication activity also counts as "work". If I find the time, I will
write it all up in my Wiki, so other people have a quick overview of what
the problem is. I am not the only one annoyed by this.
The expectation for a mailing list, is that someone with a question will
come and hopefully first browse through the archives (perhaps with a
> [...]
I have done that. Why do you assume or imply that I had not? I just didn't
find anything applicable.
To just barge in and do it 'their own way' is just being impolite.
> [...]
Would you rather I didn't post then? But like I said, I do look at the
archives later on. This is how I realised that you do have a message at
the top dated "April 2024". By the way, that is a bit embarrassing for a
mailing list for mailing list software. But manually looking at the
archives is just unnecessarily time consuming for me.
As far as your mailing list is concerned, you can certainly say that users
should accommodate to the way you operate your mailing list. You can start
by stating your usage policy here, next to "Mailman Users":
http://list.org/contact.html
But I still think it is a strange way to treat your users. You know, the
people you write the software for. My claim is, that drives many people
away. What you consider "unpolite" often comes across as "unforgiving",
"unhelpful" or "out of touch with reality" on the other side. After all,
you are trying to load unnecessary burden on the shoulders of those users
willing to communicate.
Not subscribing is in fact a quite common behaviour. For example, look for
"not subscribed" here:
https://sourceforge.net/p/smartmontools/mailman/smartmontools-support/thread/[email protected]/
https://lists.debian.org/debian-user/2017/04/msg00012.html
> [...]
'Mostly work' is often a problem. Computers need precise procedures, and
people tend to expect that they do things right.
No need to be so strict. We face communication problems everyday. Mobile
phones fail. Letters get lost. Misunderstandings. Wrong addressee. Server
down. The lot. But things are still improving. Surely Mailman and the like
can do better!
It's a bit like asking why the city bus can't come right when I need it,
Surely the smartphone app that tells you when the bus comes (or maybe
Google Maps) does not get it 100 % right either. But would you rather go
back to reading paper timetables from the official source?
Regards,
rdiez
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