On 9 Mar 2016, at 18:18, Scott A. McIntyre wrote:
Hi,
It's not clear to me that MailMate misbehaves though. This is also
supported by the comment in the headers you provided:
Comments: Did not say From: [email protected] at sender's request
This appears to mean that the sender did this intentionally.
I'm not sure that is as literal as it may appear. ;-) It's a Mailman
mailing list and the "Comments" value is the same (except for the
username) for everyone that this is happening to.
Which is because the "Sender" is Mailman, NOT the human author of the
message. That is right in a thin grey zone between complying with
RFC822 (& its successors) and violating its definition of "Sender".
I'm not sure if it's a Mailman setting, for example, that's causing
this. Since the clients are varied, and OS X Mail.app certainly
doesn't have an option that I know of here, my hunch has been Mailman
+ MailMate's interpretation.
The way Mailman constructs From & Sender headers and adds (or doesn't)
Comments explaining its actions varies depending on the version/variant
of Mailman as well as its settings. Note this list as a demo of how
Mailman can NOT do that.
There are pragmatic reasons for mailing lists to be doing what you
describe, specifically: Microsoft & DMARC. Microsoft has been playing
inconsistent games with Sender, From, and Resent-* headers for >20 years
because X.400 had different but similar concepts that they tried to
harmonize to RFC822 mail a few different ways that weren't quite right
before giving up on X.400 and sticking with their last and longest-lived
botch. Mailman and some other list managers reacted by adding Errors-To
and Sender headers where they shouldn't be, since otherwise MS
garbageware sends bounces & OoO notices & other auto-replies for
mailing-list mail to From or Reply-To addresses, because MS throws away
envelope senders and ONLY looks at headers. DMARC is a relatively new
hybrid of DKIM & SPF for authenticating mail & publishing policy
recommendations for how receivers should treat mail with invalid or
missing authentication signatures. Since mailing lists behaving normally
break most DKIM signatures and a few big freemail providers now tell
receivers to reject mail "From" their users without valid DKIM
signatures, mailing list operators either have to mangle From headers or
shun subscribers from places like Yahoo and GMail.
Any way to get the [email protected] to be recognised here?
I guess it would be best if both addresses were easily accessible...
It would be handy; as it is, I have to View Raw Message to figure out
who sent something, extract the email address, and reply to that
rather than the other values.
This is really problematic. Strings inside () are formally comment
fields that mail software shouldn't try to interpret as meaningful to
their handling of messages. Having a bare address followed by a comment
(normally a human name) is an archaic but still formally legal way to
structure a From (or other originator address) header. Parsing comments
to find a valid email address is a *MISBEHAVIOR* in some mail software
that has been abused for phishing purposes.
Any mailing list that sends mail as you described has been intentionally
configured in a manner that encourages subscribers to NOT reply to the
original message author, but rather to the mailing list. That effect may
be an unintended consequence of trying to allow freemail subscribers in
a DMARC world, but it also may well be the conscious intent of the list
operator.
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