On Mon, 8 Jun 2020 at 11:33, Laurent S. via mailop <mailop@mailop.org> wrote: > Which ESP does 100% (double/confirmed) opt in? > > I am looking for an ESP that will, in every case, send a confirmation > link without ever trusting their clients about the consent status of > lists they import?
AFAIK no one. You can find ESPs that are forcing confirmed opt-in for emails collected using their forms (instead of allowing or defaulting to single opt-in). Some of them don't even require "consensus based mailings": many of them require consent in their ToS but they trust the customer unless they have something to not believe him. > I am aware this means some recipients might never click the link and get > another 2nd mail. I am also aware this doesn't block every abuse, as > Laura mentioned (I've seen those too): I'm not sure this would be a great idea as sending a "massive single-opt in request" is anyway a massive email. An opt-in request email should be sent only when the user just compiled the form. So, you have 3 kinds of lists: 1) spam lists: the ESP would send the opt-in email to all of them and this would be spam anyway. 2) single-opt-in-lists: the ESP would send a massive email (the confirmation request) and for some of them this will be spam for some other ignoring the message this will mean stopping receiving something they asked to receive) 3) confirmed opt-in lists: like #2 but only the bad parts. IMHO - if an ESP has a way to understand the customer will do spam then they should not send anything, not even a reconfirm email. - otherwise once they send their first email the ESP will collect some data and usually detect a spammer sender better than sending a reconfirm email. If every ESP requested a reconfirmation email customers would be stuck in their ESP and every ESP could increase prices 10x as customers will never accept to reconfirm their whole already confirmed lists just because they don't want to accept their new ESP prices. Spammers, instead, would happily load their scraped/purchased lists to every ESP, running a subscription bombing to their lists and using each ESP against the parts that confirmed the opt-in on that specific sender. Furthermore forcing COI is not enough for a real consent-based mailing: the ESP should also require reconfirmations for every email that has not been mailed for more than 6-12 months and maybe they should also require reconfirmation when the sender email changes or the contents for the messages are changed or the mailing frequence changes (as consent is not just a "yeah, drop whatever you like in my mailbox"). One of the worst customers we kicked for spam was in fact using confirmed opt in but the users were not really asking him to receive the emails he finally sent them. He did a lot of "win an ipad" forms and then redirected the users to our COI forms: then he was sending them car insurance or easy credit access or anything else. Technically this may be COI, but without a real consent. So COI would not solve ESP issues anyway. So if you think that enforcing COI will give you a better reputation ESP then I'd reconsider this. So, I'm a great COI fan (IMHO "single/unconfirmed opt-in" is almost equal to "no opt-in"), but I'm not sure that expecting ESP to force reconfirmation so to only send COI emails would really fix any issue. I know you asked for a list and not a COI discussion, but I think/hope the above explains why you probably won't find such a list. Stefano -- Stefano Bagnara Apache James/jDKIM/jSPF VOXmail/Mosaico.io/VoidLabs _______________________________________________ mailop mailing list mailop@mailop.org https://chilli.nosignal.org/cgi-bin/mailman/listinfo/mailop
