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Dear all: This one is (or was...) not easy... and, in fact, it needed a lot more of thinking... I had already promised that, due to other important things to do, my intervention in this interesting discussion had ended... But then I couldn't resist the temptation to give it a little more thinking... (after all, it was History of Cartography...). A little more thinking, enriched by all the contributions colectively made until this point (namely this last one, by Joaquim Alves Gaspar, stressing what is indeed a fact: the more usual presence of Portuguese portolan-charts, not Ptolemaic mapamundi, at that place and time, Goa, 1554, among the Portuguese...). But how was that possible, a big chart unfolded and framed, under (inside) a relatively small 16th century "vidro" (glass)...? And neither absolutely exposed nor absolutelly protected (and therefore acumulating even more humidity on the face touching the glass...), travelling from the Indian Ocean to Japan, in tropical seas and lands... Then another COMPLETELLY DIFFERENT explanation occurred to me -- but an explanation also consistent with the possible meaning of "vidro" (glass) in the Portuguese language at that time...! Now I think that this is the one that can give to us all a more plausible solution for this "mystery" (or at last, intriguing case...) of the "globe" that could never have existed, and therefore turned into a sheet, but a sheet that is to big to be framed under a 16th century regular glass... The explanation is as follows. This has nothing to do with surfaces and sheets and panes...! This was not a display... It was only a transportation...! It was indeed a Portuguese portolan-chart type world map, made of parchment, as usual (in Portuguese, a "mapamundo"), with its usual dimensions, but it was rolled up, for transportation (as usual...), and introduced (and isolated from humidity, with bees wax, or other similar method of the time) inside a "VIDRO" (in another Portuguese possible meaning of the word "vidro", which can also mean "CONTAINER"...!). "Vidro", here, can have the meaning of a glass container (a kind of more or less long tubular or round container, of the type then called "boceta" which was already more easily produced at that time, eventually with many kind of shapes, blown), a container which was used to transport (when its mouth was absolutely sealed and isolated), protected from humidity, the kind of things that may deteriorate with the weather conditions and moisture, such as precious items made of parchment (such as a portolan-chart, decorated, for geopolitical information and diplomacy... what I usually call "Cartas para Príncipes"...). This is the best explanation that occurs to me, to solve this little (?) mystery. I think that this is the process though which the Japanese daimyo of Bungo (Oita) received his map dry (more or less...). I think that we came to it together, step by step (in a true example of what free and productive and motivating discussion can be...). Now I will have to do other things, but it was a pleasure having this discussion (for nowadays I have to dedicate much of my time to many other interesting and important things, very far from the History of Cartography, but it is true that this fascinating discipline is a kind of "disease"... one never forgets... and it is always a pleasure to return...) With all best wishes to everybody (including Mr. "Clouseau" in Canada...) Alfred "Poirot" Marques (not my name) **************************************** Alfredo Pinheiro Marques * * * * * * Centro de Estudos do Mar - CEMAR ************* * * * Rua Mestre Augusto Fragata, 8 - Buarcos ************* * * * 3080-900 - FIGUEIRA DA FOZ - PORTUGAL ************* **** e-mail: a...@cemar.pt - tel.: (351) 969070009 ****************** * *** * * fax./tel.: (351) 233434450; tel.: (351) 913288274 * ** ** ****************************** ** ** * * ***************************************************************************************** アルフレッド・ピニェイロ・マルケシュ ( センター所長 ) 海洋学センター ***************************************************************************************** DÉSIR ***************************************************************************************** Visite a Bibliografia dos Descobrimentos -- Visit the Bibliography of the Discoveries -- Visite la Bibliografia de los Descubrimientos: http://www.uc.pt/bd.apm --- BD - International Bibliography of the Discoveries and Overseas Encounters (ed. Alfredo P. Marques) ***************************************************************************************** (será que esta base de dados bibliográfica ainda lá está, no endereço http://www.uc.pt/bd.apm da Universidade de Coimbra...?) (is it still there, at the University of Coimbra, at http://www.uc.pt/bd.apm, this international bibliographical database...?) (¿adonde está esta base de datos bibliográfica que estava en http://www.uc.pt/bd.apm, en la Universidad de Coimbra...?)
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