Can a plug-in be made to save OOXML format for LibO for a short term solution? On Oct 26, 2010, at 7:14 PM, Frank Esposito wrote:
>>> * It is ugly >> >> This is a very subjective call, so not worth consideration outside a "UX >> needs >> improvement in some areas" > > > UX can make or break a product, just ask Steve Jobs and therefore IS worth > consideration. Someone even brought up this point on the first conference > call (sorry I cannot recall your name but you were correct) > >> >> >>> * It is slow >> >> Define slow, I have 3.2.1 on clients machines and is grease lightning fast, >> certainly faster than opening up all 4 of MS applications at the same time. >> >> > this is "subjective" as not everyone has the same machine as you or tour > clients, I was merely summerizing the responses form my own personal polling > of why people use M$ office over OO. performance is an issue, this is > known. compared to MS, it is comparable, but they are the team on the field > right now... > > > > >>> * It is clunky >> >> Define "clunky" in specific terms >> > > clunky and refined are in fact subjective terms, but once again Steve Jobs > and his buddies over at Apple understand this. > > I wil try though: > windows95: clunky > OS X: not so much > > terminal:clunk > gnome: not so much > > another example of clunky, I can insert page numbers by clicking 1 button in > MSO, > > OO, not so much. > > > >> * It has issues with MS doc and docx files (yes I know MS formats in >> an insane way and does not follow standards) > > Not as many issues as MSO has with ODF, and LibO/OOo is standards compliant >> >> > yes but the world uses MSO so that point is moot if were are trying to get > them to use LO/OO..... and the average user or business IT person usually > does not even know what "standards compliant" even means. All they care > about is their employment agency only accepts a resume in word format > > > > When someone using OO/LO tries to save in a docx format and gets this: > > [image: LibreOffice 3.png] > > hosted link of pic in case the pic does not come through: > http://imm.io/1NCo > > > they will not use LO/OO in the future. > > As a professional writer, I cannot use OOo because my clients only accept M$ > word docs, they don't care about standards, they care about what they can > use to get their business done and most of them use MSO. And since we are > trying to take their M$ world away form them, we have to play their game for > now. > > > >> >>> unrefined >> Subjective again define >>> >> > if you want people to use your product, you must take subjective ideas into > account. look what refinement did for the iPhone > > > > >>> >>> As someone who has worked in corporate IT in the U.S., and now in >>> ecommence for a major U.S. corporation, >> >> This is the problem, :) I'll get to this further on. >> >> not sure what you mean, is it a problem I work there or is corp America the > problem (in either case I agree, nonetheless I am not sure your point) > > > >> >>> here are my recommendations: >>> >>> * LO needs to match every single MS Office function, and then provide >>> what MS Office is missing >> >> It does that already, Forms and PDF functionality just an example. >> >> not 100%, saving in MS format is huge,also there is no reliable grammar > check (yes people in the U.S. use it) the review system is not as refined as > MSO > and as previously discussed in this list, there is no bibliography/reference > manager, included in MSO 2007 and 2010, important for academia > > > > >>> * The interface needs to become refined (think iphone refinement), >>> maybe even adding the dreaded ribbon or option to switch between the >>> two types) >> >> I agree with this, except for the ribbon. Iwould suggest that LibO/OOo >> still >> has greater market share than MSO2007/2010 ouside of Educational >> institutions >> > > I agree the ribbon is ugly (more subjectivity, sorry) and menus are better, > but if we are trying to capture market from business users who just got used > to the ribbon, it should be an option to have. > > > >> >>> * MS Office filters and converters need to be perfected >> "Perfect" is non achievable and a moving target >> > > > no but compatible should mean "compatible" and agian we are trying to take > market form them, this is not a technical wish it is a marketing wish. > > > >> >>> * Investigate a revision control system like such as Sharepoint or >> Google >>> docs >> >> This I agree with, I'd like to see a function in the installer of a >> business >> version that gives the option of calling up an install of O3 spaces >> > > >> >> >> Not sure why this, OOo is available in many more languages than MS and I'm >> pretty sure LibO will be there soon as well, spell check works well as far >> as >> I can see, grammar checkers are bad voodoo and are more often wrong than >> right, however they can serve a purpose. If you study document production >> work flows by someone who is a professional at the game, not an IT person >> who >> rarely has any idea about producing richly formatted documents, you will >> find >> that grammar checkers are more often than not used as suggesters of >> alternatives which a writer either ignores or adapts to suit their own >> style. >> > > > > yes i agree, but there are a few functions in the MSO gram. checker that are > very good, but lacking in LO/OO. this is a sticking point for some, > especially students. > > >> >> As for formatting tools, Stylist kicks the arse of any similar tool in any >> version of MSO, once you have climbed the learning curve and unlearnt the >> really bad habits that using MSO has created. The only change I would make >> is >> having stylist docked and open by default and on file>new a "select or >> create >> template" dialogue opens >> >> >> > > the magic word you used is learning curve, business does not like to > retrain, because that means money. A major point of using OO/LO is cost. > matching what they know will make LO adaptability that much easier > > > > >>> >>> >>> We could institute some kind of feedback program such as the test >>> pilot model that Mozilla uses >>> with Firefox 4. We can also look at how MS destroyed Word perfect in >>> market share to dominate the World Office suite business market. >> >> Read Clayton Christensen, MSO was cheaper and good enough and easy to get. >> LibO/OOo is in fact in that same position right now. The tipping point is >> coming, some would argue that in Europe it is already there and given MS >> recent marketing, it seems they may agree . >> >> > Agreed, but if TDF can hit 30% in the States, imagine the worldwide affect > it would have for FOSS and M$ stockholders. > > > > > > >>> >>> Then LO needs to innovate new features and stabilize its current >>> feature set, this is how Firefox, and later Chrome won the browser >>> wars (in my opinion at least) >> >> A browser is an entirely different beast, the only thing they share is the >> fact they are software. It's like comparing going to the movies to driving >> a >> truck. Forget that, they are tools to specific audience >> > > > stop comparing apples and oranges when I am talking about fruit. it is the > idea and motivation behind the idea I was referring to, not the actual > product. > moz is trying to make their product better by gathering feedback from people > who are using their product in that very instance (if you have used the > pilot extension you know what I mean) > > > > >> >> >> >> The biggest barrier to adoption in business is the advocates themselves, > > I am sorry to say it is not as I have been screaming about OO since > ver.1.0, yet many corps are still using MSO 2003 to this day. > > the barrier is what will be the most cost affective transition, does corp A > switch to OO and ODF knowing their documents will not be compatible or do > they stick with a product they have literally used for over a decade (and > some place it is the same version for over a decade) > > > > Problem with OSS projects is we go after geeks, or the IT department, >> > > yes and since the average user just wants their product to work and does not > care about standards, they will use what they know. My brother for example > will not upgrade to MSO 2007 because he knows 2003. OO? all he knows is it > is different than what he is used to and does not have the time to relearn > software; the menus are completely different and so is half the > workflow...an example of the average user. > > > > >> >> >> I tell you what, we must be doing something right. >> >> well when you only have 20% of the market by giving the product away and > the 700$ suite has 60%, you need to do better. > > Android is a good model to look at, it is killing the iPhone and is open > source, but they got the UI right, and, to take a quote form apple, it just > works. This is what LO needs to do, work, for the avg. user for the CEO, for > the IT guy > > > and for the record, I am not a MS fanboy (as I write this on an ubuntu 10.10 > system in minefield4 prebeta8). > The real longterm goal is to get the business world to adopt Oasis file > formats. once that happens, OO will win more market > > > FOSS forever! > ciao > -fe > > -- > E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org for instructions on how to > unsubscribe > List archives are available at http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/marketing/ > All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be > deleted > -- E-mail to marketing+h...@libreoffice.org for instructions on how to unsubscribe List archives are available at http://www.libreoffice.org/lists/marketing/ All messages you send to this list will be publicly archived and cannot be deleted
