At 12:00 PM 7/5/2005 +0200, Oudeyis wrote: "Steve, I really do not
have enough time to devote to answering this message as it
deserves. So please excuse the briefness of my responses."
No problem at all. I am happy to let that response be the last major
word on this discussion for now, which we can certainly return to
when time permits.
As for the final question asked, "What say you comrade?" I say, thank
you for the stimulating discussion, we'll get back to these important
and stimulating topics as time goes on.
Below are some passages that stand out for me as excellent thinking
and research points for me to work with.
Victor suggests, asks, points out:
* that I am "... arguing that all reflective thought is ideal ..."
* "So what do you call reality? Ilyenkov is quite clear as to what
he calls reality ..."
* "What is virgin materiality? If by virgin materiality you mean
that part of nature men have yet to have contacted ..."
* Sorry, but I'm afraid your argument that thought as a function of
practice and thought as received social wisdom are both ideal are not
acceptable to me or to Ilyenkov."
* "Your views that all reflective thought is ideal is much more
consistent with the views of Lukacs, Adorno, Marcuse and Horkheimer
and more recently of Habermas than with Ilyenkov ..."
* "... you've determined that all human consciousness is ideal ..."
* "Wow! I wrote the previous paragraph before reading this one ..."
* " ... you are confirming my description of your argument as more
consistent with Critical Theory than with EVI's Marxist-Leninism."
* "The identification of scientific theory as an integral part of the
ideal is an invention of Lukacs that was expanded by his Critical
Theorist epigones."
* "At no point does Ilyenkov describe scientific work as ideal."
* "What say you comrade?" Oudeyis
I say: thanks again,
- Steve
<end>
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