Pardon, my misquoting your definition of an epoch. An epoch in the Marxist standpoint is a historical period of time distinguished in its geenral framework on the basis of the mode of production, rather than by "more than one generation." In my estimate this more accurately pays homage to the spirit of Marx. Again, I apologize for my misquoting. Social revolution means the kind of change in the productive forces - tools, instruments, machines and underlying energy source of the production process, that compels society to reorganize itself around the new changes. The social revolution we are currently experiencing is called the transition to the post industrial society. Social revolution is two words - society and revolution. People organize themselves around the production and distribution of the necessities of life. We call such social organization society. The type of societies they form and develop ultimately reflect the level of the development of the productive forces or tools, instruments, machines and underlying energy source of the production process, with the property relations within. As the tools, instruments, machines and underlying energy source of the production process are improved - revolutionized, and surpluses are created in this human social (society) different groups in society begin to relate differently to these instruments of production. Changes in the instruments of production by definition alter - change, the relations of people in production. Some owned tools and some did not. People relationship to tools are not limited to just their ownership rights. Relations of production or production relations are "the laws defining property and the relationship of people to property in the process of production." Relations of production or as it is popularly called by some Marxists, "social relations of production" as material relations that are real can be industrial or manufacturing or landed property relations. Property relations is important but does not exhaust the meaning of relations of production. This understanding is one of the decisive intellectual junctures that separates an era in the development of American Marxism. The issue I raised and defined in detail concerning levies was not simply whether or not they were part of the productive forces. Everything is part of the productive forces that embodied alienated labor, in the widest sense, although levies do not produce dry land. Levies produce nothing. Our species produce and here "produce" is treated in a Marxists sense as alienated labor. Nature does not produce as such, but rather creates. Levies are part of the infrastructure and the infrastructure is the underlying framework on which the productive forces, as a distinct stage of development of the technological regime is constructed and made operational. For me, the issue is more accurately describing the actual curve of the social revolution that is taking place as the leap to post industrial society.
*********** WL: The events in New Orleans or rather the hurricane devastating Florida, Mississippi, Alabama and Louisiana cannot begin the social revolution as an epochal event because social revolution for Marx grows out of the conflict between "the material productive forces" and "the existing relations of production, with the property relations." ^^^^^^ CB: However, I am saying levies are productive forces, and, a conflict between relations of production and productive forces is when a lot of people get fucked over because the relations of production/property relations cause the productive forces to be "fettered" , i.e. prevented from being used to their full potential so as to prevent people from getting fucked over; and to the extent that people get fed up and change the relations of production as a result of some crisis resulting from this conflict. WL: Another aspect of fettering we are living and can authenticate is that the productive forces come into contradiction with themselves - and then "pass over" to antagonism and on this basis enter into antagonism with the property relations rather than the description from the past era of American Marxism that simply says, "the productive forces are in contradiction with the form of ownership rights of these productive forces." Or there is no way to explain development of qualitative leaps in production that set the stage for the dissolution of old property forms (or more actually a distinct mode of accumulation as a property form) of the relations of production. Relations of production at all times mean the relations of people - (human beings, as a lived, shared and collective experience, defining a technological regime, as it produces material wealth and value) and how these people are actually mobilized to use the instruments of production AND their relationship to this property in the process of production. Relations of production cannot mean or be reduced to mean property relations or more actually a historically definable form of property relations. In my opinion Marx does not imply that relations of production excludes the productive forces. Thus I am not at variance with Marx. Rather, the definition that limits relations of production to mean simply property, a concept from the rising era of industrial production, is at variance with Marx meaning. The laws defining property and peoples relationship to property in the process of production is a valid American English rendering of Marx meaning and firmly within Marx concept of the superstructure. In this sense the superstrucre is a political expression of property in the process of production. This presentation is in no way at variance with Marx and is more definitive than stating "relations of production means property relations." Property relations are by definition material relations of production or rather ownership rights over things in the process of production and through these things control is exercised over the individual and classes - in my opinion. What flows from this understanding of Marx meaning is a somewhat different concept of social revolution well underway. One can of course chart the curve of development of the current society (social) revolution - again, beginning with its early expression is the transistor and the emergence of the semiconductor as setting the stage for a qualitative leap in the material power of the productive forces. It is this real social revolution that is calling for and compelling society to leap to a new political basis and politics as the superstructure is the legal expression for property. Waistline _______________________________________________ Marxism-Thaxis mailing list Marxism-Thaxis@lists.econ.utah.edu To change your options or unsubscribe go to: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/listinfo/marxism-thaxis