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Today's Topics:

   1. Kevin Brien's *Marx, Reason, and the Art of Freedom*
      (Jim Farmelant)
   2. Re: More of the same : proletariat not simply working class 
      ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
   3. Cornforth on diamat (Charles Brown)
   4. More of the same : proletariat not simply working class 
      (Charles Brown)
   5. Re: Cornforth on diamat (Ralph Dumain)
   6. Re: More of the same : what evidence for new class forces
      st... ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
   7. Re: More of the same : proletariat not simply working class 
      ([EMAIL PROTECTED])
   8. Re: Cornforth on diamat ([EMAIL PROTECTED])


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Message: 1
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 17:12:48 -0400
From: Jim Farmelant 
Subject: [Marxism-Thaxis] Kevin Brien's *Marx, Reason, and the Art of
 Freedom*
To:
 [email protected],[EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain



Recently, I received in the mail a copy of the new second edition
of Kevin M. Brien's book, *Marx, Reason, and the Art of Freedom*
(Humanity Books - Prometheus, 2006), from Professor Robert
S. Cohen of Boston University. Now, while I am generally
not one to look a gift horse in the mouth, the receipt of this
book left me slightly bewildered. There was no letter or
note of explanation enclosed with the book. Although
a couple years ago, I did attempt to contact Professor Cohen
at Ralph Dumain's request, my attempts to reach him
had ended in failure. He doesn't do email. And a
philosophy professor that I know there had attempted
to contact him at my request, but that too ended in
failure. So why would Professor Cohen now be
sending me free books?  And how did he get
my home address?  After all, my name does not
appear in the phone book, and I have never posted
my street address on the Internet.

So I tried making contact with him. First I started 
with his official Boston University email address.
But my emails to him immediately bounced back.
He apparently still doesn't do email. I then tried
his phone number at Boston University. Well,
apparently he doesn't have an answering service
either. I suppose when you are 82 years old, you
are probably not going to bother with email
and answering services, if you had never bothered
with those things before. So, I next tried contacting
the philosophy department at BU. I received a response
back from the department's program coordinator. So
I suggested that she forward my thanks (as well as
my questions concerning how he got my home address)
to Professor Cohen.

Lo and behold, this past Friday, I received a phone
call from the big man himself. He said that Kevin
Brien was a former student of his, and that as a 
favor to him, he was mailing out copies of his
book to people, whose names and addresses
that Brien had forwarded to him. It was Professor
Cohen's understanding that Kevin Brien had obtained
access to the subscription lists of some leftwing
publications. Well I subscribe to Monthly Review
and Science & Society, and I l know from past
experience that these publications do release
their subscription lists to certain favored progressive
organizations and people. So there was my answer.

Anyway, I started to read the book itself. It is work
on Marxist philosophy written from the standpoint
of a humanistic Marxism. Professor Brien strongly
defends the position that Marx's work from his
youthful writings like the 1844 Paris Manuscripts
to his most mature writings like Capital constitute
a unity. In other words he rejects the contentions
of the old Stalinists and the Althusserians that
there is a fundamental disjunction between the
young Marx and the more mature Marx.
In fact he rejects the idea that there is a bifuracted
Marxism: a 'positivist' Marxism versus a 'humanist'
Marxism, a 'voluntarist' Marxism versus a 'determinist'
Marxism, or a 'reductionist' Marxism versus an
'emergentist' Marxism. On the other hand, Brien
does clearly opt for a Marxism that is humanist,
that is volunatarist, and that is emergentist,
so he might be charged with simply privilaging
one Marxism over the other, while not really
resolving the apparent bifurcation that exists
within the Marxist tradition. Having said that,
he does attempt to do justice to the views of
those Marxists that one would not expect him
to be particularly sympathetic with. While he
is no Althusserian, he does see much that
is valuable in Althusser's analysis of social
structures, and he attempts to incorporate this
into his own analysis of capitalist society.
While Kevin Brien is certainly not an old
fashion dialectical materialist, he does, unlike
some other noted humanist Marxists like Lukacs, attempt
a defense of Engel's belief in a dialectics of
nature. In doing this, he draws heavily upon
the work of the quantum physicist, David Bohm,
especially Bohm's *Causality and Chance in
Modern Physics*. That book, as I have noted
elsewhere, represented an attempt by Bohm
to provide an updated version of Engels'
philosophy of nature in the light of modern
physics. Brien suggests that Engels' dialectics
of nature might provide a basis for for what he
describes ass a "third-order heuristic for the
ongoing dialectic of inquiry in the nonhuman
natural sciences." While he does not see this
as essential for Marxism, Brien believes this
to constitute a reasonable extrapolation of
Marx's method from the social to the natural
sciences.

Some other noteworthy features of the book
include his drawing upon Bertell Ollman's
work on dialectics, including his use of
the notion of internal relations as that concept
was developed and elaborated by Brand
Blanshard. Brien goes out of his way to
rebut the critiques that were made of this
concept by the empiricist philosopher,
Ernest Nagel.

He also makes a limited engagement
with analytical Marxism as represented
by the work of Dan Little. Apparently, Little
had critiqued some of Brien's ideas so this
inspired him to answer Little. Brien embraces
Little's depiction of Marx as an empirical social
scientist (as presented in his *The Scientific
Marx*) but argues contrary to most analytical
Marxists, that Marx was a dialectial empirical
social scientist. In this way, he attempts to
incorporate into his own thinking what he
regards as some of the valid insights of
analytical Marxists like Little, while remaining
true to his own dialectical, humanist Marxism.
This is sort of the same tac that he had taken
with Althusser. Curiously enough, he makes no mention at all
of people like G.A. Cohen, Jon Elster, or E.O. Wright,
people who are much better known analytical
Marxists than Dan Little.

Another noteworthy feature of the second edition,
is his attempt to find common ground between
Marxism and Buddhism. Apparently, in the time
following the writing and publication of the first
edition of this book, Professor Brien has become
deeply interested in Buddhist thought, and is now
obsessed with reconciling Marxism with Buddhism.
As he points out, Marxism and Buddhism do share
a number of things in common. Both modes of
thought are non-theistic in character, and both
systems as naturalistic. Here, Brien makes the
argument that one can have a spirituality without
theism, citing Buddhism as a prime example
of a nontheistic spirituality. He then goes on
to argue that Marxism is compatible with a
nontheistic spirituality and that in fact Buddhism
and Marxism both share the objective of trying
to lead man into living a non-alienated existence,
He recognizes that there are definite distinctions
between the ways that Buddhists have traditionally
attempted to attain this goal and the ways that
Marxists have approached it. But he suggests
that the Marxist and Buddhist approaches may
be more complementary than antagonistic.





------------------------------

Message: 2
Date: Sun, 18 Jun 2006 19:01:58 EDT
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] More of the same : proletariat not
 simply working class 
To: [email protected]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="US-ASCII"

This is the one statement I disagree with.   I see no evidence of this at 
all.  Why not spontaneously fascist,  gangsterish, opportunist, 
cannonfodderish, passive?

>Further it is  the most poverty stricken sector of the proletariat that is
>truly  communistic in its spontaneous class striving.  


Comment
 
I accept disagreements. 
 
People who demand something to eat, housing, education, transportation,  even 
if they have no money to pay for these things, are spontaneously demanding  
means of subsistence outside the law of buying and selling of their labor as a  
precondition to eating. That is my meaning. An instance of this that shocked  
America was the evidence in the wake of the hurricanes that uprooted a 
million  or more people. 
 
World wide the most poverty stricken - a huge section of humanity living  off 
of less than 5 dollars a day are demanding socially necessary means of life  
in a scattered and haphazard way. It is the role of communist to make this  
unconscious spontaneous striving a conscious political force. 
 
Melvin P. 



------------------------------

Message: 3
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:04:09 -0400
From: "Charles Brown" 
Subject: [Marxism-Thaxis] Cornforth on diamat
To: "'Forum for the discussion of theoretical issues raised by Karl
 Marx and the thinkers he inspired'"
 
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Ralph Dumain :

Furthermore, while Cornforth's class analysis of the history of philosophy
may be broadly correct (though it is micro-incorrect in failing to account
for the subjective self-understanding of positivists and pragmatists), his
reduction of the contrast between Marxism and bourgeois philosophy to "two
camps" is Stalinist through and through.  Not only is he wrong about the
nature of the Stalinist camp, but he is wrong about the relationship of
Marxist to non-Marxist philosophies.  In practice, he treats Marxist
philosophy as a system opposed to other systems, though he denies doing 
so.  Like most philosophers influenced by diamat--in this period, 
especially--he was very good at exposing both the social roots and the
idealist blinders of bourgeois philosophy--i.e., at exercising the negative,
critical function of Marxist philosophy--but diamat as a constructive
philosophy remained primitive, underdeveloped, stagnant, locked into
formulas and authorities.  This is the tragedy of the whole tradition.

Others have endlessly criticized the logical structure of diamat over the
past century.  One could toss off hundreds of names.  The first that pop
into my mind are Scanlan, Norman, and 'Rosa Lichtenstein'.  There are some
who have argued that bad logic works to the advantage of bad
ideology--Popper, for example, and now 'Rosa'.  However, there remains more
to be said about this, even at this late date.  It is especially relevant 
for recalibrating the relations among intellectual traditions, my larger
project.


^^^^^^^
CB: These all sound like exercises of a negative critical function as well.
Where is an affirmative critique or an exercise of synthesis in materialist
dialectics or whatever the proper name for Marxist dialectics is ?

The synthetic development of Marxist dialectics would come out of the
revolutionary practice, as in actual revolutions in the SU and progeny, no ?





------------------------------

Message: 4
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:40:05 -0400
From: "Charles Brown" 
Subject: [Marxism-Thaxis] More of the same : proletariat not simply
 working class 
To: "'Forum for the discussion of theoretical issues raised by Karl
 Marx and the thinkers he inspired'"
 
Message-ID: 
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"

Waistline2 
________________________________

Again why fight a straw man and not speak to the issue and material   
presented? 


Melvin P.

^^^^^^
CB: What straw man ? 

^^^^^
CB: I'm not the CPUSA, so  why should I address your criticisms of the
CPUSA.
Send it to the CPUSA if  you want a response.

I did address part of the material you presented.  What is the evidence of
the new class you speak of ?  Your response did  not present evidence of
said
class, though you labelled what you said  "empirical evidence".  


MP: Sorry if I gave you the impression  that I thought your were the 
Communist Party USA. I do recognize that you are an  individual rather than
a 
political formation. Actually I presented the empirical  evidence.

^^^
CB: Point out the empirical evidence you presented ?

^^^^^^

 You simply 
disagree. That is OK.

^^^^
CB: I disagree that you presented empirical evidence of the new class you
speak of.

^^^^^


  Qualitative changes in the mode  of production means new class 
by definition and/or new forms of the laboring  class.


^^^^
CB: To me this is circular or begging the question ( in the technical sense;
"begging the question" doesn't mean saying something that just "begs" that a
certain question be asked, but rather affirming by assertion rather than
with supportive evidence). Why , because what we, you and I are disputing,
is whether or not this particular revolution in the instruments of
production, the CAD/CAM , cyber, robot, computer, etc. revolution _is_ a
revolution in the instruments that triggers a rev. in the property
relations. For Marx, not every rev in the instruments of production _in
capitalism_ results in a socialist rev. The radical rearrangement of
production from the Fordist assembly line revolution in the instruments of
production, did not result in a successful rev in property relations (
though the Russian Rev and progeny may be attributed to that).  This current
qualitative change in the instruments and organization of technological
production _may_ result in another run at revolutionizing property
relations, but it has not yet.

^^^^

 Manufacture means a 
manufacturing class, industrial means industrial  class and post industrial
means 
post industrial classes or new class or new  forms of class.

^^^^^
CB: These are technical classes.  Class is defined based on ownership.
Manufacturing working class, industrial working class, were both wage
laborers.  The capitalist manufacturing class, and capitalist industrial
class were capitalists. The wage-labor/capital remains the same throughout
capitalism, the relationship as analyzed by Marx in _Capital_.  Technical
revs don't all result in new classes. 

Also, to have a new working class would imply a new capitalist class.

^^^^^^


 Like slavery 
means a slave class or the slave form of a class  and feudalism means serf
or a 
new class in relations to the previously existing  mode of production and so

on. 

^^^^
CB: Correct. And all through the different technical developments of
capitalism there remains a capitalist class and a working class, in a
capitalist/wagelabor relation.

^^^^^^^
 
The material presented goes back to the previous discussion of the meaning  
of class antagonism and why the wage struggle is not the meaning of class  
struggle. 

^^^^
CB: Struggle over the size of the wage is a reform struggle. It is not the
"meaning" of the class struggle in the sense that the ultimate end of
Marxist conscious working class struggle is to overthrow
capitalist/wagelabor _relalations_ , not just maximize wages.

^^^^^^
 
It is the proletariat - rather than simply the concept of the working
class, 
that is truly revolutionary. The autoworkers as an industrial form of the  
class are not revolutionary at all as a part of the working class in their  
identity as a decaying class fragment. 

^^^^^^^

CB: You'll have to argue this more.  The other segments of the working class
which I believe you are designating as the proletariat , are not so
evidently not decaying, or decaying less than the autoworkers.


^^^^^^
 
This dialectic - of decay of class fragments, is nothing new and Marx of  
course speaks to it clearly in the Communist Manifesto.


^^^^
CB: Where specifically ?

^^^^^


 Fragments of Capital -  
(as a historically evolved social power), enter into antagonism with itself
on  
the basis of the advance of the productive forces and this social power 
called  capital is a class thing or assume a material form and expresses
called 
class.  The working class as the new class of the industrial revolution is
only  
revolutionary as a working class until a certain change takes place that 
begins  to drive sections of the working class and the capitalist into
antagonism 
with  the advance of industry.
 
It is the proletariat - not the working class, that is truly revolutionary.


^^^^^
CB: Is this you or Marx ?

^^^^^^^



Further it is the most poverty stricken sector of the proletariat that is 
truly  communistic in its spontaneous class striving.


^^^^
CB: They are more fed up with the system, for obvious reasons, but I don't
know that they are more communistic.


^^^^^^^^^


 The autoworkers fight and 
must  fight, to exist and continue existing as auto workers, as an aspect of
their  self identity as a class sector. Consciousness cannot change the
boundary of  this material relations. It is only to the degree that a
section of this sector  - class fragment, of workers, can step outside the
logic of what makes them auto  workers that they can enter into the fight
generated on the basis of the  spontaneous logic of the communist
proletariat that is already 
demanding  socially necessary means of life outside the value relations or
even if they  have no money. 

^^^^^
CB; Yea, but they are only getting pittance, plus a lot of them are getting
thrown into prison and jail, where they are fed "for free".

Plus, they do not have some communist theory or consciousness behind their
"demands". They are not organizing themselves consciously ( or at all), they
don't have new class consciousness. Spontaneity won't get it.  Lenin's ideas
on this are still valid for any new communist class, they must be class
conscious to carry out revolutionary tasks.

^^^^^^^ 
 
He is the new dynamic that most communists are having trouble grasping and  
disagree with. Some believe the working class is truly revolutionary,
although  
their is no evidence - as you like to state, to prove this historically. 
 
Melvin P.

^^^^
CB: In the capitalist mode of production , Marx's position that the working
class is the only potentially revolutionary class is still valid.  That the
working class is the only potentially revolutionary  class does not mean at
all that a working class at any given time or place is _actually_
revolutionary. Marx's position is not that the working class is
automatically actually revolutionary, but that it is the "job" of Marxist
partisans of the working class to bring working class and socialist and
revolutionary conscious to actuate that revolutionary potential. Right now
we partisans are not having much success in the U.S. 






------------------------------

Message: 5
Date: Mon, 19 Jun 2006 10:49:36 -0400
From: Ralph Dumain 
Subject: Re: [Marxism-Thaxis] Cornforth on diamat
To: 
Cc: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Message-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

See the latest entry in my Emergence Blog for specific references alluded 
to in my previous discussion of Cornforth:

http://www.autodidactproject.org/my/emergence-blog.html

I've alluded time and time again to the Norman-Sayers debate on 
dialectics.  I retrieved my review of 1995 and made it into a web page:


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