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But you didn't succeed, did you? Why on earth did you call your listserve Marxmail? Isn't that reference sectarian as well? I'm fully aware that you can't pull things like soviets and dual power out of a hat, and that the postwar period has been characterized by a growth of the middle class, and a Western working class more or less accepting of capitalism. No section of the European population desires revolution at the moment. The above, however, in no way implies that the capitalist classes have become any more reasonable or amenable to a left-Keynesian course. They are more intractable than ever, and someone, like Veroufakis, who tells people otherwise, who dangles before them the possibility of a renovated, more people-friendly EU, is fostering illusions and setting them up for defeat. It avails nothing to lead millions if you are leading them into a cul-de-sac. The purpose of the left must re be to raise popular consciousness to the point where it is adequate to confronting the ruling classes in a serious way. Needless to say, this is not an easy thing to do. But it isn't accomplished by pandering to popular illusions of some peaceful, electoral way out of the current impasse. Creegan On Sun, Feb 8, 2015 at 7:29 PM, Louis Proyect via Marxism < marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: > ******************** POSTING RULES & NOTES ******************** > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > ***************************************************************** > > On 2/8/15 7:12 PM, James Creegan wrote: > > What would be the attitude of Veroufakis to any section of > > the Greek or Spanish people that dared to fancy itself capable of > > initiatives offensive to left-bourgeois sensibilities ? Is the > > comparison to Menshevism so farfetched here? > > Yes, it is. It is just a sign that you are walking around like the film > comic figure Morgan with visions of Red Stars and hammers and sickles in > his head. It is a fantasy world that you live in. By using the epithet > Menshevik, a term that has little meaning outside Russian radical history, > you are displaying an inability to deal with the real world in 2015. > > There are people in Greece with your politics. You have to ask yourself > why they got so few votes. Is it possible that unlike 1917, when the Second > International had hundreds of thousands of members throughout Europe, many > of whom were ready to join the newly formed Communist Parties at the drop > of a hat, Greece has different social and political characteristics? If you > took the trouble to actually study recent Greek history, you would > understand that in the period following the return to parliamentary > democracy, both PASOK and New Democracy consciously built up a middle-class > layer in the tourist and service industries as it sought to undermine the > industrial working class. Entering the EU was part of that strategy. People > voted for Syriza to a large degree because they still have illusions in the > EU. > > In your mind, Greece is like Germany in 1921 when it is much more like > Greece in 2015. Your problem is that you don't take the trouble to read > serious Marxist analysis of contemporary Greece and are content to repeat > the vacuous talking points of the ultraleft. > > > Your attitude to the CPGB is also revealing. It appears that any group > > that attempts to associate itself with the historical legacy of > > Communism, or its symbols, is ipso facto a sect in the eyes of our > > "unrepentant" Marxist? Greeks who invoke memories of their civil war, or > > Spaniards who recall theirs, may disagree. JC > > Actually, you put it better than I ever could have. You advocate > associating yourself with "the historical legacy of Communism" when I think > that this is absolutely the wrong way to go. That is why I work with a > website called North Star and not something called Proletarian Struggle > adorned with pictures of Karl Marx, clenched fists, and red stars. In fact > I created Marxmail in 1998 just to put as much distance as I could between > the people I was trying to reach and people like you. > _________________________________________________________ > Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm > Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/ > options/marxism/sectarian61%40gmail.com > _________________________________________________________ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
