******************** POSTING RULES & NOTES ******************** #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. *****************************************************************
PFLP-affiliated Palestinian Student Labor Front withdraws its endorsement of the BNC statement attacking NYC-SJP: http://pflp.ps/english/2015/10/09/clarification-by-progressive-student-labor-front-on-statement-by-gaza-students-on-bds/ - Amith On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 9:42 PM, A.R. G <amithrgu...@gmail.com> wrote: > Haa I've had the opposite bullying-related experience. Most of the people > that have gotten quite nasty with me were closer politically to the > opposite camp, often putting Western NGO's political priorities ahead of > the demands of the BDS call itself. I was astounded to see that many of the > BDS "successes" go out of their way to recognize Israel and categorically > ignore the right of return (although recent victories, such as the > electricians' union and the statement of black leaders did not make this > concession). > > I know some of the NYCSJP crowd are Maoist, but I also know that quite a > few of them take very strict stances against sectarianism. I also know a > couple of them of personally, and while I disagree with some of their > stances I think they are coming from places of principle. > > I also think something might have been lost in translation. These groups > in Gaza may in fact be discussing a very different BDS movement than their > own. Because BDS is really more of a tactic than a movement, they may not > be familiar with the conditions here in the US, where basic aspects of the > BDS demand are regularly thrown aside out of "pragmatism" -- such as the > right of return. I cannot imagine that they have ever had a shouting match > about whether or not the right of return is something that can be dismissed > on pragmatism grounds in Gaza, where 80% of the population is refugees. > > Likewise, in speeches that he has made here, Omar Barghouti has publicly > stated that BDS is not a left movement, that there's "no Marx and Engels > here," and that it is entirely liberal in nature. That does not mean > leftists should spurn it (on the contrary, I think leftists who do not > support it need to explain themselves), but I think that leaves > considerable room for criticism. That is how I read the NYC-SJP statement, > I do not know how anyone who read it could consider it an "attack" on the > BDS movement rather than a recognition that there are limits to political > liberalism more generally. Indeed, I know from working with (some of) them > that many of them are leading the BDS initiatives on their respective > campuses. How they can be seen as attacking something that they are helping > to build does not make any sense to me. > > I am trying to find the article I was referencing that Lou wrote on the > subject (I can't find it, and he doesn't remember it...could I have dreamed > it up?) but it was basically that the thing that is most needed in the BDS > movement is structural analysis. That understanding doesn't exist at the > moment. The focus on international law not as a narrative framework but as > a goal in-and-of-itself, in addition to the excessive reliance on > IL-focused liberal groups who, for a combination of reasons, do not take > demand #3 (right of return) seriously, is, in my view, a class issue. Given > that capitalism does not just randomly pop up, but has been imposed on > various parts of the world through a myriad of class institutions (states, > lobbies, NGOs, etc.) that maintain a number of different managerial > regimes, including international law, there will always be limits and > conflicting priorities when it comes to ensuring the protection of > particular rights. So while some of the liberal groups may be willing to > condemn the most egregious aspects of Zionism (the occupation) they will > not take the kind of stances that are necessary to isolate Israel as a > regime in its entirety. Moreover, even if they manage to do so (I suspect > they will continue obtaining plenty of help in doing so from Mr. > Netanyahu), there is no guarantee that all of the demands being put forward > by the BDS groups in Palestine will be met if the international > infrastructure of the movement is overly accommodating to Israel as a > regime -- particularly the right of Palestinian refugees to return, which > is seen (falsely) as a sort of existential threat to Israel as a regime. In > short, liberal internationalists do not adopt anti-Zionist or anti-colonial > views, and as a result, the centrality of BDS to organizing in American > spaces has brought in people with political priorities that foreclose on > some of the very demands in the BDS call. It is a blatant contradiction and > in my experience, that is what the NYC-SJP organizers are trying to > emphasize. > > - Amith > > On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 9:19 PM, Andrew Pollack <acpolla...@gmail.com> > wrote: > >> I know the players all too well, and the BDS groups in Palestine were >> entirely correct in their criticism of the "NYC SJP" statement, which is a >> sectarian, ultraleft attack on the movement. >> Are any or all of the former groups class struggle revolutionaries? >> That's worth exploring. >> But the Maoist sect behind the denunciation of BDS and the >> mischaracterization of the movement's goals and leaders are narrow-minded >> bullies. (I know, having faced their wrath myself.) >> >> On Thu, Oct 8, 2015 at 8:10 PM, A.R. G via Marxism < >> marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: >> >>> ******************** POSTING RULES & NOTES ******************** >>> #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. >>> #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. >>> #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. >>> ***************************************************************** >>> >>> >>> NYC Students for Justice in Palestine, a coalition of radical >>> anti-colonial >>> Palestine solidarity organizers, just released this statement calling >>> for a >>> more critical understanding of the growing BDS movement, seeing it as a >>> tool rather than an end in itself, and criticizing the increasing >>> dependence of the movement to defer to bourgeois elements of so-called >>> Palestinian Civil Society. >>> https://nycsjp.wordpress.com/2015/10/04/the-bds-ceiling/ >>> >>> Surprisingly there was an almost immediate response from a handful of >>> initiatives in Gaza, in turn megaphoned by the Ramallah-based BDS >>> National >>> Committee, accusing the students of attacking and mischaracterizing BDS. >>> >>> http://www.bdsmovement.net/2015/palestinian-student-groups-in-gaza-respond-to-attacks-on-bds-by-nyc-sjp-13309 >>> >>> The latter statement is, in my view, highly contradictory for reasons I >>> am >>> willing to elaborate on personally, but as I am not privy to the details >>> of >>> this row I'd rather just post it here for discussion. I know Louis and >>> others on the left have been critical of BDS for lacking class analysis >>> and >>> being overly deferential to "international law". I think those are >>> legitimate areas of criticism for a movement that has an increasingly >>> liberal and bourgeois character and is largely represented by Western >>> NGOs >>> rather than the Palestinian civil society. >>> >>> As tensions continue to rise in occupied Palestine and others speak of a >>> third intifada, I think it is time we begin to have a more critical >>> discussion of exactly whom in Palestine peace activists, Marxists, and >>> leftists should align themselves with and whether or not many of the >>> international efforts for Palestine are being appropriately accountable. >>> _________________________________________________________ >>> Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm >>> Set your options at: >>> http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/acpollack2%40gmail.com >>> >> >> > _________________________________________________________ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
