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Thanks, Ralph. Those were the ideas and sentiments I would have liked to have articulated, but I clearly lack your gift of exposition. Louis, Until Sanders came along and proved he could mobilize millions on behalf of these issues, I have always worked on the campaigns of and voted for third-party independents/Green candidates. I have always eschewed voting for or even paying any attention to DP candidates and primaries. I have engaged in endless (and usually fruitless) debates with left-leaning friends, colleagues, and comrades over the need to break with the DP. I only mention this so as to assure you I have zero illusions about the two party system. That said, I have come to the conclusion that the only way for us to even open up an avenue into the electoral system is to stop trying to create new and improved third parties and to instead work on forging a united front to institute an instant runoff voting system everywhere we can. You need to break down people's psychological barriers to voting third party first. That's really the only way you can do it... > On Jan 17, 2016, at 2:10 AM, Ralph Johansen via Marxism > <marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: > > ******************** POSTING RULES & NOTES ******************** > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > ***************************************************************** > > Louis Proyect wrote > > ... > > “If he were running as an independent, I'd certainly support him. The problem > is that he is a Democrat. The key to class politics is creating a pole of > attraction to the left of the Democrats that can challenge wage slavery...” > > > No one argues with your analysis of who and where Bernie is. What I disagree > with is that Bernie would be more effective for the cause that we espouse, > socialism, if he were running as an independent. Can you imagine what > response he would be getting as an independent, without access to the bully > pulpit furnished by the debates? > > Given our experience here in the US, where there is appreciably no left in > existence, we might recall that Marx said “Hic rhodos, hic salta.” Here is > where we are. Here is where we dance. While not entirely apposite, it’s close > enough. It was a saying originating in Aesop that came to Marx through Hegel. > It is about a man who boasts of his exploits in Rhodes. The respondent tells > him to show us right here, where we are. This is where it will count. > > Bernie has about as good a track record as a left advocate as anyone in the > three branches of government, even if within the Democratic Party which we > despise. The issue for me is, does he advocate changes which are consistent > with the move toward a better life for all, which therefore are consistent > with advance toward socialism. I say that he does, even if his rhetoric is > reformist and he’s very weak on foreign policy, and he may well endorse > Hillary if she becomes the Democratic candidate, without seeking to impose on > her platform in the general election the program that he calls for and that > brought him all this mass support. The point is for us to prevent her > nomination from happening, if we can, and he is all we have. He is not, as > Obama and Hillary and all the others repeatedly do, making the case for the > glories of capitalism, and he is therefore anathema to the media and the > establishment. His speeches resonate with millions, particularly young and > insecure people who have no quarrel with socialism, whatever they may think > it is. and who recognize their plight in what he describes. What he would do > once in office would, as always, depend very much on us. As an old retired > stiff with limited funds, I’m sending another $25 and will volunteer. I’m > prepared to be disillusioned, again and yet, but not sit out the only game > going. > > > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------------ > > > --- > This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software. > https://www.avast.com/antivirus > _________________________________________________________ > Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm > Set your options at: > http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/shalva.eliava%40outlook.com _________________________________________________________ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
