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Freaky - I was just re-reading parts of Cockshott & Cottrell today, this time inspired by this news: http://www.nytimes.com/2016/03/08/us/politics/new-federal-website-aims-to-enhance-community-services.html?_r=0 ... which I've posted a couple times on facebook as an example of the ever-growing technical tools out there for properly-articulated self-managed socialism. Emphasis on technical, because using these tools for real planning implies first of all seizing the needed political tools. So yes, read and discuss C&C, who are entirely right and the ability of computers to do the math needed for democratic planning, and read what Jim forwarded, and Mandel on planning. And devise your own schema for a self-managed society - for instance, how would one share info and do calculations for a society shifting toward "care work"? The most common adjunct today to input-output planning, based originally and narrowly on production, is environmental costs and damage. Why not expand the models to other social (and natural) variables? On Wed, Mar 9, 2016 at 8:08 PM, Jim Farmelant via Marxism < marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> wrote: > ******************** POSTING RULES & NOTES ******************** > #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. > #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. > #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. > ***************************************************************** > > > > I have authored or co-authored at least a couple of pieces that might of > interest here. > > There is the article, "The Strange Case of Dr Hayek and Mr Hayek ," by > Mark Lindley and myself, which is about, of course, Friedrich Hayek. > ( > https://www.academia.edu/3291616/The_Strange_Case_of_Dr._Hayek_and_Mr._Hayek > ) > > It includes an appendix on the socialist calculation debate. We not only > focused on the well known debate between Hayek and Oskar Lange, but also on > the less well known debate between Hayek and Otto Neurath, Otto Neurath was > the economist and philosopher (he was a founder of the Vienna Circle), > whose writings on socialist economic planning had provoked Ludwig von Mises > into writing his famous 1920 article, "Economic calculation in the > socialist commonwealth". > (https://mises.org/library/economic-calculation-socialist-commonwealth). > > Some years back, I wrote an unpublished review of David Laibman's book, > Deep history: a study in social evolution and human potential. That book > was most about Laibman's reflections on the materialist theory of history > but also included discussions concerning his thoughts on socialist economic > planning. He both critiqued and built upon the ideas that were developed by > Cockshott and Cottrell, emphasizing the importance of democratic > participation in the planning process. > ( > https://www.academia.edu/205061/Review_of_David_Laibmans_book_Deep_history_a_study_in_social_evolution_and_human_potential > ). > > BTW concerning the role of computers in socialist economic planning, Oskar > Lange wrote on that in the last paper of his life, "The Computer and the > Market." > ( > http://econc10.bu.edu/economic_systems/Theory/NonMarx_Socialism/Soc_Contraversy/lange_computer_and_the_market.htm > ) > > > > Jim Farmelant > http://independent.academia.edu/JimFarmelant > http://www.foxymath.com > Learn or Review Basic Math > > > ---------- Original Message ---------- > From: Craig Butosi via Marxism <marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu> > Subject: [Marxism] Economic Planning/Centralization and Computation - The > Work of Cockshott and Cottrell > Date: Wed, 9 Mar 2016 15:41:04 -0500 > > > Hi all, > > I thought I'd both share and inquire about the work of socialist economists > Allin Cottrell and W. Paul Cockshott. In particular, their book Towards a > New Socialism <http://ricardo.ecn.wfu.edu/~cottrell/socialism_book></http:> > I've > long been fascinated by the 'how-to" of centralized economic planning and > the possibilities of realizing such an economy by applying modern > computation to track economic inputs and outputs, hence completely > destroying some of the assumptions and exhortations found in the work of > von Mises and the Austrian School (briefly and vulgarly, his argument that > no single authority can possibly calculate all economic inputs and outputs > to run an economy, that Markets must do this). > > I wanted to know if any comrades on here are familiar with Cockshott's and > Cottrell's work, or if you have reading recommendations from other > socialist cliometricians working in the centralized economic planning and > computing sphere? I have never heard of them until very recently so I have > much reading to do; I wondered what you all thought about their work, and > the reception their work has received over the years. > > Thanks all, > > Craig Butosi, MA, MLIS, B Mus (Hons) > Website: craigbutosi.ca <http://craigbutosi.weebly.com> > Library: library.craigbutosi.ca > _________________________________________________________ > Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm > Set your options at: > http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/farmelantj%40juno.com > > ____________________________________________________________ > Affordable Wireless Plans > Set up is easy. 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