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a) There is nothing bizarre or even radical in describing Bayard Rustin as a cis-gendered man, which he was. He did not present himself as trans in public and I have not encountered anything saying otherwise. He was cis, he was a man who had sex with men (MSM), and he was Black. Ergo "*they all are cis men and, except for Rustin, white heterosexuals*" is the proper description. What, is there some juicy gossip about Harrington sodomizing Howe that I missed out on? ;) b) Two matters to discuss here: You might want to check when bombing of North Vietnam began (hint: JFK was out of office;) he was criticized on the right for *not* trying to invade Cuba i) American bombing of North Vietnam We can go back and forth for days about what exactly qualifies as "American bombing", which to me strikes me as being equivalent to arguing how many Angels of Death can dance on the head of a pin. In the hindsight provided by the Pentagon Papers, the National Archives disclosures, the Kennedy administration papers being declassified, and Wikileaks, there is a cogent and logical case for American provision of arms and bombs to the forces opposing the North Vietnamese as early as 1946 as a response to Ho's election in January of that year. Some might argue the French were not acting as our proxies in that instance (something I fundamentally beg to differ on). However, since Chomsky and his blush response is being brought up, here is what Noam wrote in his polemic RETHINKING CAMELOT < https://zcomm.org/rethinking-camelot/> and particularly < https://zcomm.org/wp-content/uploads/zbooks/htdocs/chomsky/rc/rc-c01-s05.html >: *On October 11, 1961, Kennedy ordered dispatch of a US Air Force Farmgate squadron to South Vietnam, 12 planes especially equipped for counterinsurgency warfare, soon authorized “to fly coordinated missions with Vietnamese personnel in support of Vietnamese ground forces.” On December 16, Defense Secretary Robert McNamara, whom JFK had put in charge of running the war, authorized their participation in combat operations against southerners resisting the violence of the US-imposed terror state or living in villages out of government control. These were the first steps in engaging US forces directly in bombing and other combat operations in South Vietnam from 1962, along with sabotage missions in the North. These 1961-1962 actions laid the groundwork for the huge expansion of the war in later years, with its awesome toll...* Certainly we can ask about when the public knew about bombing or when they became cognizant of the war. But the record indicates, after 50 years, that we had our hands in that cookie jar during the Truman administration with an air war component as late as the first Eisenhower term. ii) he was criticized on the right for *not* trying to invade Cuba We sent a CIA-backed invasion force into the Bay of Pigs. That was an American operation. JFK was criticized for not sending in the cavalry ---to re-enforce ground troops we had already put into action---. That whole episode would have been little more than a failed fireworks display had it not been for the CIA's role in training and provision of arms. As for the matter of parking lots, I don't think that is hyperbolic at all. Where are you going to put all the dump trucks as they steal the pillaged natural resources and other booty from our piratical imperialist operations, Ho Chi Minh's bungalow? We were trying to ransack the place and make room for highways by which the expropriation might be streamlined. I invite you to take a second look at my analysis here: < https://www.counterpunch.org/2018/08/31/grappling-with-the-racism-of-the-dsas-founders/ > -- Best regards, Andrew Stewart from: Matt Harvey <mattharv...@gmail.com> to: hasc.warrior.s...@gmail.com cc: marxism@lists.csbs.utah.edu date: Sep 10, 2018, 8:00 PM subject: [Marxism] Grappling With the Racism of the DSA?s Founders Andrew, I really wanted to give your piece on DSA a chance. It starts off well and I think the legacy of Cold War era Pentagon--CIA or DC think tank, pick your description--socialists as represented first by the *Encounter* then *Dissent*, Irving Howe and late-period Schactman is fertile ground for repertorial spade work. Shanker's destructive cleaving the old NYC liberal coalition is an extremely interesting footnote if nothing else. I even tried to choke down this bizarre line, "*(and they all are cis men and, except for Rustin, white heterosexuals)" *[Cis?] in the hopes that you were attempting irony or it was an unfortunate editorial addition. Unfortunately the ahistoricism continues apace with an anti-Kennedy rant--climaxing with, "[JFK] was in the midst of the genocidal effort to turn Vietnam into a parking lot"--that would make Chomsky or Alexander Cockburn blush. (You might want to check when bombing of North Vietnam began (hint: JFK was out of office;) he was criticized on the right for *not* trying to invade Cuba, btw.) So I alas I didn't find out if the overhyped DSA is doomed by original sin. _________________________________________________________ Full posting guidelines at: http://www.marxmail.org/sub.htm Set your options at: http://lists.csbs.utah.edu/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com
