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But beyond the regamarole of the pseudo-theroies (Leninism, Stalinism, Trotskyism etc) there is a serious matter that gets entirely overlooked in styupid quarrels over these non-theories. Regardless of the theory or the leader, millions of people struggled and millions died not for the theory but for the supposed aim of those theories. We are happy that the USSR and not Nazi Germany won the war, are we not. We are happy that Chiang and his descendants don't still keep the Chinese peasantry in the state once described as standing in water up to one''s nose, on tip-toe, with every ripple threatening to drown you. We are happy that the Shah is not still running Iran. We are happy that Venezuela is not a tool of the U.S. in managing Latin America. Aren't we. And that those struggles did not result in some exact copy of the Socialism which exits only in your head doesn't seem ver relevant. Carrol ________________________________________________ Send list submissions to: Marxism@lists.econ.utah.edu Set your options at: http://lists.econ.utah.edu/mailman/options/marxism/archive%40mail-archive.com