Marx said we should be where the workers are. The workers aren't in those parties any more, because as we all know they long since ceased to be mass workers' parties.
He didn't say we should vote the way they vote. He said we should be leading them towards a better politics and a better world. I'm a worker myself and I'm not perpetuating any illusions about these crappy parties, and I am not going to encourage people to vote for them. I'd be embarrassed to say I'd voted for Biden. I'd rather workers dropped out of voting, to be honest, unless and until there's something significantly better. For years I've argued against "if you didn't vote you can't complain". I'm certainly not going to encourage people to vote for something I believe objectively hurts the working class just because something else might hurt it more. Shattering illusions in bourgeois democracy seems to me to be more useful, even of we do use it sometimes to run *our own* candidates. If workers tell me they voted Labour, I'll respectfully discuss that decision with them and I'll tell them why I didn't. It still surprises and heartens me how often those people respect and understand my reasoning. People often have a less deep-running commitment to that voting choice than we expect. It's ironic that defences of Biden and his ilk are appearing in a thread headed "On Tuesday, Biden demonized the protesters as hate groups." Just how shitty do they have to get before we follow the workers who've decided their disgust in the warmongers/agents for big capital has cost them their support? At which point we're tailing behind instead of providing leadership. Comradely, John On Sun, 5 May 2024, 14:14 Marv Gandall via groups.io, <marvgand2= [email protected]> wrote: > On Sat, May 4, 2024 at 04:32 PM, Charlie wrote: > > Marv asserts, "the working class masses ... identify the Democratic, > Labour and other left-centre parties with the advent of the welfare state > and the conservative parties with having resisted it and wanting it > dismantled." Another fact-free assertion. > > Charlie resorts to elippses to characteristically accuse me of > falsification. I was referring not to the class as a whole, and certainly > not to the Trump voters, but to the working masses who continue to support > the DP. In reply to John E.'s question as to why they continue to do so, > my answer was they "still prefer them to the right-wing parties which > they view as the greater threat to the social and political gains acquired > through struggle over generations. They identify the Democratic, Labour and > other left-centre parties with the advent of the welfare state and the > conservative parties with having resisted it and wanting it dismantled." > > That was clear enough. I wish the poor fellow would get over his > Compulsive Gandall Disorder and get back to making the revolution. > > -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=- Groups.io Links: You receive all messages sent to this group. View/Reply Online (#30223): https://groups.io/g/marxmail/message/30223 Mute This Topic: https://groups.io/mt/105891162/21656 -=-=- POSTING RULES & NOTES #1 YOU MUST clip all extraneous text when replying to a message. #2 This mail-list, like most, is publicly & permanently archived. #3 Subscribe and post under an alias if #2 is a concern. #4 Do not exceed five posts a day. -=-=- Group Owner: [email protected] Unsubscribe: https://groups.io/g/marxmail/leave/8674936/21656/1316126222/xyzzy [[email protected]] -=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-=-
