Is there room for a lurker in the hangout? If so, is there a link for
joining the hangout? (I tried using the hangout calendar link from awhile
back, but I couldn't get my google calendar to recognize it.)
Cheers,
-Tony
On Wed, Jan 15, 2014 at 9:57 AM, Michael Droettboom <md...@stsci.edu> wrote:
> On 01/14/2014 03:49 PM, Chris Beaumont wrote:
>
> I have another long-simmering feature request along these lines: if
> Matplotlib were to evolve a formal DOM-like figure structure like mentioned
> above, it would be cool if this structure retained more semantic
> information about the visualization itself. By this, I mean that many
> high-level commands like hist, scatter, etc. spawn a bunch of low level
> artists like rectangles and circles. After these methods exit, it's
> hard/impossible to introspect a Figure and diagnose that it, for example,
> is a histogram and not a bar chart.
>
>
> I agree, this would be very nice to have, but is (obviously) a much bigger
> step from what we currently have in matplotlib. Along those lines, if the
> "frontend" (i.e. the pylab interface and even the OO interface) basically
> generate a tree, then you could serialize that tree (here XML would be a
> great fit, don't knock it), and even non-Python based tools could transform
> it into something else.
>
>
>
> Retaining a better high-level description of a plot (which probably
> amounts to creating more compound artist types) would make it easier to
> build tools like mpld3 and other cool things that involve runtime editing
> or optimization of tree-like data structures.
>
>
> Agreed.
>
> No argument against this at all from me -- but knowing how much work this
> would be, the obstacle there is just finding the time to do it. It would
> be a significant rewrite...
>
> Mike
>
>
>
> chris
>
>
> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 3:34 PM, Jacob Vanderplas <
> jake...@cs.washington.edu> wrote:
>
>> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 12:04 PM, Michael Droettboom
>> <md...@stsci.edu>wrote:
>>
>>>
>>> I hope all of the above makes sense...
>>>
>>
>> Definitely makes sense: what I've built-up in mpld3 is essentially
>> something that mimics this sort of visitor pattern, though it misses some
>> things because of the draw-time difficulties you mention.
>> I think a two-stage draw() would be a _very_ helpful restructure.
>> Currently, I'm forced to achieve this result by writing a png to a
>> throwaway byte-stream...
>> Jake
>>
>>
>>>
>>> Mike
>>>
>>>
>>> On 01/14/2014 01:30 PM, Jacob Vanderplas wrote:
>>>
>>> Thanks - we'll make it happen at some point.
>>>
>>> Perhaps I can give the seed for a discussion: the stuff I've been
>>> doing with mpld3 is a lot of fun, but it's fundamentally limited by the
>>> fact that I have to dig around the internals of the figure object to find
>>> the relevant information to construct a plot representation. I may be able
>>> to do the same thing by creating a backend, but the problem is that the
>>> draw() methods of most objects call the renderer with no reference to
>>> whether the points lie in the data space or figure space: that is, paths
>>> and points are usually specified in figure/pixel coordinates or some
>>> transformed version thereof, which makes it near impossible to construct
>>> interactive representations absent Python kernel callbacks.
>>>
>>> What I'd love to see is some enhancement of the backend framework
>>> where there are some extra flags and information passed to the renderer:
>>> i.e. for each draw command, we need to know whether the drawn object should
>>> be linked to static figure coordinates or to dynamic axes/data coordinates.
>>>
>>> I've been in touch with Cyrille Rossant from the vispy team, Chris
>>> Beaumont from the Glue team, and Matt Sundwuist from the plotly team, all
>>> of whom asked if there might be a way to use what I've done with mpld3 to
>>> enable matplotlib to export into their own front-end format. I didn't
>>> start mpld3 with that sort of extensibility in mind, but I'm starting to
>>> invest some time thinking about how to design that.
>>>
>>> With the current matplotlib package, I think there are two ways to
>>> accomplish it: one is to create a general backend-like interface based on
>>> the figure introspection that mpld3 currently uses. The artist elements in
>>> each figure contain enough information to be able to infer whether the
>>> elements should move & zoom with the axes or not. The problem is, a lot of
>>> elements (like legends, axes aspects, etc.) are not fully established until
>>> the draw() command is called, so there are a few ugly hacks required to
>>> make it happen.
>>>
>>> The other option is to use an even uglier hack, and wrap the current
>>> backend framework with an object that somehow links back into the figure
>>> and infers from the draw_*() commands whether the path/point/marker/etc.
>>> should be drawn in static figure coordinates or in dynamic axes
>>> coordinates. I've started a simple prototype backend translator which has a
>>> renderer class that uses ``inspect`` back-trace the stack and accomplish
>>> this: It's really ugly, and I'm not particularly proud about it, but I
>>> think it's the current best way to accomplish the desired behavior.
>>>
>>> Ugly hacks aside, I think all of this points to a general desire for a
>>> new type of backend-like hook that can export dynamic plot elements in data
>>> coordinates, and static plot elements in figure coordinates. An
>>> enhancement in that direction could pave the way for a lot of interesting
>>> interactive front-ends to matplotlib figures.
>>>
>>> Anyway - if any of you have suggestions or responses to this, I'd love
>>> to hear them! Thanks,
>>> Jake
>>>
>>>
>>> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 9:11 AM, Michael Droettboom <md...@stsci.edu>wrote:
>>>
>>>> Jake: I'd definitely like to get you into one of these calls at some
>>>> point. If you're able to pop in late, that would still be great -- or we
>>>> can save that for another date. Trying to get Japan, three NA timezones
>>>> and the UK all together is challenging ;)
>>>>
>>>> In any event, with Thomas, Ben, Michiel and myself confirmed, I think
>>>> that's enough to go ahead, and hopefully others who have yet to respond can
>>>> join as well.
>>>>
>>>> Mike
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On 01/14/2014 11:57 AM, Jacob Vanderplas wrote:
>>>>
>>>> I'll probably not be able to swing 6am on the west coast, but other
>>>> folks are more important for this call, I think :)
>>>> Jake
>>>>
>>>>
>>>> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 8:51 AM, Benjamin Root <ben.r...@ou.edu> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> That would actually work a little bit better for me... I just have to
>>>>> remember to get into work a little bit earlier.
>>>>>
>>>>> Ben
>>>>>
>>>>> On Tue, Jan 14, 2014 at 11:36 AM, Michael Droettboom
>>>>> <md...@stsci.edu>wrote:
>>>>>
>>>>>> I'm fine with starting the meeting an hour early. How about others?
>>>>>>
>>>>>> Mike
>>>>>>
>>>>>> On 01/14/2014 04:57 AM, Michiel de Hoon wrote:
>>>>>> > I can join this Thursday if we start with the discussion on timers.
>>>>>> > If we can start 1 hour earlier (14:00 UTC, 9 am ET, 23:00 in Japan)
>>>>>> that would be even better.
>>>>>> > -Michiel.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > --------------------------------------------
>>>>>> > On Mon, 1/13/14, Michael Droettboom <md...@stsci.edu> wrote:
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Subject: [matplotlib-devel] Meeting...?
>>>>>> > To: "matplotlib-devel@lists.sourceforge.net" <
>>>>>> matplotlib-devel@lists.sourceforge.net>
>>>>>> > Date: Monday, January 13, 2014, 11:36 AM
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > It's probably a good time to schedule
>>>>>> > another matplotlib Google Hangout.
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Is this Thursday at 1500 UTC (10 am ET) too short notice for
>>>>>> > the usual
>>>>>> > candidates?
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > I know there was discussion of getting Michiel de Hoon on
>>>>>> > today (which I
>>>>>> > just saw, unfortunately). Is there another time in the
>>>>>> > future that
>>>>>> > works for you, Michiel?
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > Mike
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > --
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > _
>>>>>> > |\/|o _|_ _. _ | | \.__ __|__|_|_ _
>>>>>> > _ ._ _
>>>>>> > | ||(_| |(_|(/_| |_/|(_)(/_|_ |_|_)(_)(_)| | |
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> > http://www.droettboom.com
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
>>>>>> >
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>>>>>> |\/|o _|_ _. _ | | \.__ __|__|_|_ _ _ ._ _
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>>>>>>
>>>>>> http://www.droettboom.com
>>>>>>
>>>>>>
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>>>>
>>>>
>>>> --
>>>> _
>>>> |\/|o _|_ _. _ | | \.__ __|__|_|_ _ _ ._ _
>>>> | ||(_| |(_|(/_| |_/|(_)(/_|_ |_|_)(_)(_)| | |
>>>> http://www.droettboom.com
>>>>
>>>>
>>>
>>>
>>> --
>>> _
>>> |\/|o _|_ _. _ | | \.__ __|__|_|_ _ _ ._ _
>>> | ||(_| |(_|(/_| |_/|(_)(/_|_ |_|_)(_)(_)| | |
>>> http://www.droettboom.com
>>>
>>>
>>
>>
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>
>
> --
> ************************************
> Chris Beaumont
> Graduate Student
> Institute for Astronomy
> University of Hawaii at Manoa
> 2680 Woodlawn Drive
> Honolulu, HI 96822
> www.ifa.hawaii.edu/~beaumont <http://www.ifa.hawaii.edu/%7Ebeaumont>
> ************************************
>
>
>
> --
> _
> |\/|o _|_ _. _ | | \.__ __|__|_|_ _ _ ._ _
> | ||(_| |(_|(/_| |_/|(_)(/_|_ |_|_)(_)(_)| | |
> http://www.droettboom.com
>
>
>
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