Overall, I don't think that government, in this context, exists to
protect the majority.

On Sep 1, 6:53 pm, Aaron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> Come on, Clog.  You can do better than that.  Your first argument is
> an example of the semantic fallacy.  By that logic, you should be
> arrested for being a lady-killer.  ;-)  There's also a hint of the
> genetic fallacy.http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Genetic_fallacy
>
> You'll notice I don't deny that Christmas is a religious holiday.  I
> deny that it is "entirely" so.  In fact, I suspect that the secular
> aspect of Christmas is larger than the religous these days.
>
> The Free Exercise Clause is equal to (not subordinate to) the
> Establishment Clause.  (Santa Clause is bigger than both, of course.)
> If the rationale behind government closure is this:  "the government
> acknowledges Jesus as Lord and encourages all citizens to celebrate
> his birth,"  that would be unconstitutional.
>
> If, on the other hand, the rationale is more like this:  "the
> government is constitutionally obligated to respect the people's right
> to exercise religion.  Most of our religious employees are Christians
> who celebrate Christmas.  Most of our non-religious employees still
> have cherished family traditions on these days.  So, we've decided
> it's easier to just close shop rather than try to find people like
> Clogtowner to hold down the fort for us," then that's perfectly
> constitutional.
>
> The fact that people can visit their friends and families on other
> days is irrelevant.  Millions of families, religous and secular, have
> a tradition of gathering on Christmas.  So many, in fact, that the
> government continues to cater to their wishes.  You'd almost suspect
> we live in a democracy!
>
> Aaron
>
> On Sep 1, 2:37 pm, Clogtowner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > Hi y'all - Aha! an argument at last, albeit devoid of foundation.
>
> > >Your assertion that Christmas is
>
> >  "entirely a religious holiday" is patently absurd
>
> > If it is absurd, why is it officially called "Christmas Day." How can
> > christmas day be described any other way than religious? If it is
> > secular, why not give it a secular name and choose a day other than
> > "Jesus' Birthday?"
>
> > > Taking time off work to visit family or participate in family traditions
>
> > Does this have to be performed on a religious holiday? Aren't there
> > 364 other possibilties? I contend that by voluntarily participating,
> > one not only condones but encourages the pernicious practice.
>
> > <Your understanding of church-state separation disallows the closing
> > of government offices on days that have religious
> > significance.  My understanding does not necessarily disallow it.
>
> > How can you possibly affirm that a mandatory closing down of the
> > Government, requiring compliance from most other businesses, on a
> > Christian holiday, is not promoting a religion? A clear breach of the
> > first Amendment! Please clarify how your understanding does not
> > disallow it.
>
> > < So, your Christmas rituals
>
> > I submit that I do not have Christmas rituals. I try to live out the
> > day as I would normally - eating out, shopping, lustful gazes at the
> > opposite sex. The wall that the Government erects in the name of
> > Christianity tries to prevent me. If you can suggest a simpler
> > normality on that special day, I'll be happy to hear it. Don't tell me
> > to turn on the TV or radio. Perhaps I should hide in the closet - but
> > that wouldn't be normal.
>
> > Nevertheless - I'll be happy to share the brandy with you in a
> > suitable location.
>
> > On Sep 1, 1:35 pm, Aaron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> > > Well, Clogtowner, I think you've carefully chosen a definition of
> > > "observe" that fits your bias.  Your assertion that Christmas is
> > > "entirely a religious holiday" is patently absurd.  Taking time off
> > > work to visit family or participate in family traditions does not make
> > > anyone a "hypocritical" atheist.  The mere disbelief in gods requires
> > > nothing of us, so there's nothing to be hypocritical about!  One can
> > > be dishonest, perhaps, by pretending to believe, but not hypocritical.
>
> > > We can be hypocritical about other things, though - political and
> > > economic beliefs, for example.  That's what you're really talking
> > > about.  Your understanding of church-state separation disallows the
> > > closing of government offices on days that have religious
> > > significance.  My understanding does not necessarily disallow it.
> > > Your economic and social beliefs prefer businesses that stay open on
> > > religious holidays.  Not so much with me.
>
> > > So, your Christmas rituals are consistent with your political, social
> > > and economic beliefs.  Mine are, too.  We just have (slightly)
> > > different beliefs about those things.  Logically speaking, atheism has
> > > nothing to do with it.  Even religious people could share our
> > > political positions.
>
> > > If you want to talk politics, though, we have to bring out the brandy.
>
> > > Aaron- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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