“If someone were to present themselves to the world as a god…” – clog
So, apparently god, for you, can not be an anthropomorphic god nor one with magical powers etc. “The last straw would be for me to accept a god, and you'd have to define that god before I'd could consider it.” – clog Further, it appears that god must be definable for you in order to be considered, right? “Nevertheless freethought makes that a future possiblity, however remote.” – clog Interesting and apparently resistive response! Question, just how remote is remote in this context? :-D “How would you answer the question?” - clog At this point, the entire question about belief/non-belief is almost pointless to me. In cases like this, I just say I’m a gnostic/atheist. I don’t know now how beliefs would make any difference to me in the future, so, to even attempt to project into the future seems a strange exercise. So, I too would use the term remote. On Oct 29, 3:33 pm, Clogtowner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > Hi y'all - that's quite a hypothetical one. If someone were to present > themselves to the world as a god, throw themselves open to analysis > and demonstrate magical powers, my freethinking would lead me to the > probable conclusion that they were from another more advanced > civilization and had some limitations on their power. We enter the > realm of science fiction at this point. One of the few TV programs > that I have seen is Star Trek. The "being" Q would not be a god. > The last straw would be for me to accept a god, and you'd have to > define that god before I'd could consider it. If you define it as the > god of the 3 Os, it would be the planck length of the last straw. > Nevertheless freethought makes that a future possiblity, however > remote. > How would you answer the question? > > On Oct 29, 5:08 pm, ornamentalmind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > "Hi y'all - I'm saying (yet again) that the process of freethought > > cannot lead to theism. For me the process of freethought led to > > atheism but I accept that it leads elsewhere for others." - clog > > > Do you further reject the possibility that, at some time in the > > future, you could not use the process of freethought to accept theism? > > > On Oct 29, 2:08 pm, Clogtowner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > Hi y'all - I'm saying (yet again) that the process of freethought > > > cannot lead to theism. For me the process of freethought led to > > > atheism but I accept that it leads elsewhere for others. > > > > On Oct 29, 2:26 pm, stem cell <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > So Clog. are you saying that a theist is a freethinker...just someone > > > > you disagree with? My point is that a theist is one who believe in > > > > the theology that lead them to conclude that here is absolutly a > > > > god...of their theism. At that point, once they have made this > > > > conclusion, whether or not it is right, then they are no longer using > > > > the process of freethinking and thus not a freethinker...on that > > > > particular issue...which is what we are discussing aren't we? > > > > > stemcell > > > > > On Oct 29, 2:04 pm, Clogtowner <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > Hi y'all (again) your phrase ""A freethinker uses X to arrive at his > > > > > beliefs, but only if he arrives at nontheism." > > > > > I patently disagree. As I've said before X doesn't lead to theism and > > > > > neither does it lead to nontheism. It has lead me personally to > > > > > nontheism, but I'm happy to concede that it has led many others to > > > > > (almost as) valid conclusions. > > > > > > On Oct 29, 1:58 pm, Aaron <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > I don't want to get sidetracked, Taylor. We can talk about the > > > > > > practical conclusions later. Right now, I'm not even sure that > > > > > > everyone is following the simple logic. Assume we agree on the > > > > > > specifics X. We then have: > > > > > > > A freethinker uses X to arrive at his beliefs. > > > > > > Han Solo used X to arrive at his theism (or any belief Y). > > > > > > Therefore, Han Solo is a freethinker. > > > > > > > Several people have objected that they can't imagine how anyone > > > > > > could > > > > > > arrive at theism via X. But that's not relevant to the logical > > > > > > soundness of the conclusion. The only way to *logically* exclude > > > > > > theism from the above conclusion is to specifically include > > > > > > nontheism > > > > > > in the major premise. In other words, you must have: "A freethinker > > > > > > uses X to arrive at his beliefs, but only if he arrives at > > > > > > nontheism." > > > > > > > The extra requirement is not advisable because it makes freethought > > > > > > internally inconsistent. (Freethinkers are supposed to be free of > > > > > > dogma, yet a requirement of nontheism is indistinguishable from a > > > > > > dogma.) That's the best argument for not including nontheism in the > > > > > > definition of freethought. If anyone offers a relevant criticism of > > > > > > that logic, then I will respond. > > > > > > > Otherwise, the next step is to talk about the practical (as opposed > > > > > > to > > > > > > purely logical) implications. That's where most of you are coming > > > > > > from, I think, but it is important to me that I start at the > > > > > > beginning. It helps me avoid "retrofitting" my epistemology to > > > > > > exclude uncomfortable conclusions. > > > > > > > Aaron > > > > > > > On Oct 29, 12:00 pm, Taylor <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote: > > > > > > > > <<Freethought is the use of logic, >> > > > > > > > > You'd need to add the criteria of 1) *valid* logic and 2) true > > > > > > > propositions.- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > > - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text - > > - Show quoted text - --~--~---------~--~----~------------~-------~--~----~ You received this message because you are subscribed to the Google Groups "Memphis Freethought Alliance" group. 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