Hi y'all - I look back to my youth through tinted glasses. If I
examine my thoughts carefully, I find that I tend to yearn for days of
yore that were not really as great as I percieve with shaded
hindsight. I noted this same tendency in my parents and their parents
too.
I like your ideas of inclusion, but from my own militant point of
view, I find them unworkable. The basic tenets of religion are to
spread the word, convert the masses and bring in more tithes. Refusal
promotes conflict.
I offer education as a solution. There are many ways to educate - I
like to ridicule the ignorant and shame them to learn, but others are
kinder in their approach (Jason.) I care not which method succeeds as
long as dogma dies.

On Nov 22, 9:52 am, ornamentalmind <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
> It surely would be nice if attitudes returned to the tolerant and
> respectful state of my youth about this subject. Yes, I know that the
> attitude of entitlement and the ‘normalcy’ of Christian rituals
> permeating our culture has always been close to the surface and in
> some instances, directly ‘in your face’. However, as a kid, in the
> 1940s and into the 1950s, I remember being taught to not impose any
> particular religious rite upon anyone else. We could feel safe and do
> as we wished in church but that was where such things took place and
> not in the public commons. Even though I did grow up in the ‘North’,
> few would call Indiana a bastion of progressive thinking. Somehow,
> even in this conservative culture, there was a wide acceptance and
> respect for others when it came to things like religion, politics and
> life in general. Of course, I remember, in grade school, perhaps 2nd
> grade or so, when ‘under god’ was added to the pledge. I found it
> curious and still have to force myself to remember that aspect of the
> pledge.
>
> Somehow, my idealistic attitude hopes for and projects an attitude of
> the ‘normalcy’ of a respective secular society. When I am able to hold
> this view, life is better. The conscious polarization of people over
> the last few decades in many areas has produced an ongoing dialectic
> that would make Karl and Frederick proud!
>
> Since the successful move to pit person against person, similar to the
> civil war era, by politicians and now the corporate media and others
> through all sorts of propaganda, the notion of ‘in order to form a
> more perfect union’ is seldom heard nor addressed. Since there remains
> a strong sense of nationalism, albeit a confused one, I suggest that
> going forth using such attitudes of inclusion, similar to Barack’s
> words and apparent persona, might hasten the return to more
> egalitarian times. I find the notion of removing theological rituals
> and beliefs from any society to be foolhardy, at lest for the near
> future. What I suggest is helping to reinstitute more of an
> inclusionary approach, forging forth with at least the feigned persona
> of not imposing our will upon others as being the normal state of
> affairs. And, by extension, is expected of all.
>
> This is for daily interaction. When necessary, then the ‘war’ must be
> forged. Similar to the days of Madalyn Murray O'Hair, the will of the
> people, ALL of the people must be heard and this includes those of us
> who do not appreciate being ‘evangelized’. The truth is that many of
> those who may not have thought about this before would agree when and
> IF they had been hustled to join some group and/or religion not to
> their liking. Such hypotheticals presented at the appropriate moment
> can do wonders.
>
> No, I am not so naïve as to think there will be no opposition. It is
> clear that there have always been and will always be fanatics. People
> who have attached to their beliefs about what is right and wrong to
> such a degree as to feel the need to impose this upon others exhibit
> an illness of the psyche and must be treated and talked about as such.
> A simple polarization like calling ‘them’ terrorists does a grave
> injustice to the reality of the situation let alone rational thinking.
> Although, I do understand how attractive such further polarization can
> be.
>
> In the end, am I proposing anything radical? Not really, just a
> further examination of my own and other people’s perceived attitudes.
>
> So, thank you for having the forum where I could openly express and
> explore my own thinking on this subject!
>
> ornamentalmind
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