Nieman Marcus pays it's employees, Wal Mart doesn't. The people at the
top of Nieman contribute to the poor, the Wall family does not. etc.

On Dec 14, 8:12 am, Clogtowner <[email protected]> wrote:
> Hi y'all - I think we've been down this road before about what the
> "poor" do with their money. I don't for one moment believe we have a
> fair system - life is not fair. Nevertheless, a poor person's vote
> counts just as much as a wealthy one in the polling booth. Of course a
> wealthy person voting with a wallet has more effect on companies that
> go bust or surivie and this was the root of the debate. In the present
> economic environment Nieman Marcus is feeling the pinch. Wal Mart are
> doing very nicely thank you.
>
> On Dec 14, 9:54 am, "Liz Purkrabek" <[email protected]> wrote:
>
>
>
> > No.  It's not as small as you think, and even if it is small, how is it a
> > fair system when those most likely to benefit from enforcing a change in the
> > system are the least able to effect such a change? The neighborhood I grew
> > up in is typical of thousands of others across this country, and I don't
> > like the idea that it is somehow not significant that because their wallets
> > are empty, they are powerless to "vote" with them.
>
> > liz
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: [email protected]
>
> > [mailto:[email protected]] On Behalf Of Clogtowner
> > Sent: Sunday, December 14, 2008 9:40 AM
> > To: Memphis Freethought Alliance
> > Subject: Re: WASHINGTON MUST BAILOUT RETAIL SECTOR
>
> > Hi y'all - I'd like to see an accurate figure for the percentage of
> > the population who have no money and are therefore unable to vote with
> > their wallets. I suspect it would be rather small and entirely
> > inaccurate.
>
> > On Dec 12, 8:23 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote:
> > > "... For me this is true democracy. I vote with my wallet. ..." - clog
>
> > > Typical...equating economics with governance! I know the media keep
> > > pummeling us with this notion, but, of course, they are two entirely
> > > different things. IF one even takes one second to consider the people
> > > who have no money, this becomes painfully clear. Of course, it is all
> > > too common to ignore or rationalize this truth.
>
> > > On Dec 12, 10:10 am, Clogtowner <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > Hi y'all - yes I do like Wall St. and millions of stock holders. For
> > > > me this is true democracy. I vote with my wallet. If I don't like a
> > > > company (or a CEO) I'll sell the stock and if others do likewise the
> > > > value of the company will be diminished (unlike the Govt.) If we had
> > > > more stock holders, we'd have more democracy, and no, it doesn't cost
> > > > a lot - I can buy or sell any amount of stock for $7. There are
> > > > brokers who help small investors get started by offering $4 trades and
> > > > they will deal in fractions of a share.
>
> > > > On Dec 11, 9:00 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > “…If Govt. becomes involved in a business it necessarily sets up a
> > > > > huge bureaucracy in its own image to
> > > > > run it. I've seen these grow from nothing - layer upon layer. It
> > > > > drains the economy slowly and exhaustively. I've never seen one
> > > > > function efficiently in the long term…” – clog
>
> > > > > Yeh, sorta like Wall Street and millions of stock holders. Talk about
> > > > > a huge bureaucracy! And, the government claims to regulate all of this
> > > > > too!!! Capitalism bureaucracy built in it’s own image for sure.
> > > > > Clearly, the ‘economy’, whatever anyone wants to mean by the term, is
> > > > > drained fully by CEO’s with BILLIONS of dollars in stock and having to
> > > > > give additional profits to the stock holders. Anyone who wants to buy
> > > > > stuff has to pay so much more because of this grossly inefficient, top
> > > > > heavy and greedy system.
>
> > > > > On Dec 11, 7:12 am, Clogtowner <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > Hi y'all - "First, ‘the Govt.’ (We the people.) can be in any
> > business
> > > > > > ‘we’ want
> > > > > > to be in. ‘We’ set it up that way. There is no ‘should’ about it.
> > > > > > And, ‘we’ in fact have little to no control over spending. At least
> > > > > > not directly. Also, there are no real ‘strings’ when it comes to
> > such
> > > > > > things. If studied long enough, this will become obvious. And, as
> > > > > > contradictory as it looks, you now seem to think it is OK for ‘us’
> > to
> > > > > > turn a profit! Strange! "
>
> > > > > > Indeed I have only been in this country for 21 years but I have
> > > > > > studied the effect of Govt. ovwnership of business in the Eastern
> > > > > > Bloc, and I've seen the results. If Govt. becomes involved in a
> > > > > > business it necessarily sets up a huge bureaucracy in its own image
> > to
> > > > > > run it. I've seen these grow from nothing - layer upon layer. It
> > > > > > drains the economy slowly and exhaustively. I've never seen one
> > > > > > function efficiently in the long term.
> > > > > > We can't say what strings are attached to the Auto deal yet as it
> > has
> > > > > > not been completed, but so far it looks more promising, from a
> > > > > > taxpayer point of view, than the Bank debacle.
> > > > > > During the recent collapse of many banks the FDIC (and I don't
> > > > > > normally praise the Govt.) has done a fine job of ensuring stability
> > > > > > and guaranteeing accounts. Note the difference in the UK where no
> > FDIC
> > > > > > existed and we were treated to videos of Building Society customers
> > > > > > lined up and screaming for their money. Eventually the UK Govt. were
> > > > > > forced to step in and offer their version of the FDIC.
>
> > > > > > On Dec 10, 11:30 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > “Hi y'all - I can't agree with you on this. Neither the Govt. nor
> > the
> > > > > > > whole citizenry of this country should be in the car business. As
> > the
> > > > > > > Govt. controls the spending I have no objections to loans in the
> > > > > > > interest of the country with strings to ensure repayment, and
> > > > > > > hopefully, a profit. The Govt. does a good job of backing up our
> > bank
> > > > > > > accounts FDIC (so far.)
> > > > > > > I do agree about the banks. They should have been offered the same
> > > > > > > deal.” – clog
>
> > > > > > > Clog, I know you weren’t born here nor are you old enough to know
> > what
> > > > > > > all has transpired when it comes to such issues here in the US.
> > So, I
> > > > > > > don’t blame you much for being what appears to be quite naïve.
>
> > > > > > > First, ‘the Govt.’ (We the people.) can be in any business ‘we’
> > want
> > > > > > > to be in. ‘We’ set it up that way. There is no ‘should’ about it.
> > > > > > > And, ‘we’ in fact have little to no control over spending. At
> > least
> > > > > > > not directly. Also, there are no real ‘strings’ when it comes to
> > such
> > > > > > > things. If studied long enough, this will become obvious. And, as
> > > > > > > contradictory as it looks, you now seem to think it is OK for ‘us’
> > to
> > > > > > > turn a profit! Strange!
> > > > > > > Anyway, no, the Govt. (We the people.) do not do a good job of
> > backing
> > > > > > > up our bank accounts. Think “Savings and Loan Crisis’. The thing
> > that
> > > > > > > McCain was deeply involved in among others.
> > > > > > > And, what is ‘common knowledge’ (about the banks) is in fact not
> > the
> > > > > > > reality. IF one reads the 108 pages or so of the first bank
> > bailout,
> > > > > > > what it said was that the banks should just take the money and buy
> > > > > > > other banks! It said nothing about helping people and businesses
> > who
> > > > > > > couldn’t get loans. Look it up. Most of what is presented on
> > corporate
> > > > > > > TV is half truths at best. At worst, much of it makes the old
> > USSR’s
> > > > > > > Pravda look like a comic book!
>
> > > > > > > On Dec 10, 7:25 am, Clogtowner <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > Hi y'all - I can't agree with you on this. Neither the Govt. nor
> > the
> > > > > > > > whole citizenry of this country should be in the car business.
> > As the
> > > > > > > > Govt. controls the spending I have no objections to loans in the
> > > > > > > > interest of the country with strings to ensure repayment, and
> > > > > > > > hopefully, a profit. The Govt. does a good job of backing up our
> > bank
> > > > > > > > accounts FDIC (so far.)
> > > > > > > > I do agree about the banks. They should have been offered the
> > same
> > > > > > > > deal.
>
> > > > > > > > On Dec 9, 10:49 pm, ornamentalmind <[email protected]>
> > wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > Again, the notion of nationalization isn't being mentioned. I
> > would be
> > > > > > > > > for that. At least that way, 'we the people' would get some
> > sort of
> > > > > > > > > return on our investment. By now, we should own almost every
> > US bank.
>
> > > > > > > > > On Dec 9, 2:30 pm, Taylor <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > <<$70/hr. with no reference to benefits. I >>
>
> > > > > > > > > > That includes benefits to *retirees*.
>
> > > > > > > > > > According to my limited accounting, the benefits that
> > retirees receive
> > > > > > > > > > should be expensed as they occurred and not attached to
> > future
> > > > > > > > > > employees.  I'd like to see this topic explored in greater
> > detail.
>
> > > > > > > > > > On Dec 9, 2:39 pm, Clogtowner <[email protected]> wrote:
>
> > > > > > > > > > > Hi y'all - I've just done some further research on
> > payscales and I've
> > > > > > > > > > > come up with no solid answer. The UAW (I'd expect them to
> > be biased)
> > > > > > > > > > > mention $30/hr plus benefits (what do the benefits amount
> > to?) Faux
> > > > > > > > > > > news and the like mention (I'd expect them to be biased
> > too) $70/hr.
> > > > > > > > > > > with no reference to benefits. I suppose the truth is
> > somewhere in
> > > > > > > > > > > between In any event, these rates seem rather high to a
> > poor old Mid
>
> ...
>
> read more »- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
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