Royce,
Your first point about the refining process new info
for me, I assumed a fixed percentage of gas, kero,
sludge, whatever came out of every batch. Good point.
And it might be relevant if we have a high domestic
demand for diesel right now, which I don't think we
do. I would guess such data is available.
2nd para - competition for crude misses my point which
is the DISPARITY in gasoline and diesel
prices...increased demand for crude (which there is
from China, etc) increases fuel in general. I
understand that. International competition for end
product - do people ship tanker loads of diesel and
gasoline around the world? Maybe they do, but seems
like refiniing is LARGELY a local process.
"oil companies can't any more manipulate the price of
product than the agribusiness folks can manipulate the
price of corn flakes."
Which is why ADM got fined millions of dollars for
price fixing a couple years ago.
Kraft used to dump tons of cheese on the market to
force the price of milk down, then buy tons more milk
to offset the loss on the cheese...until they got
caught about 5 years ago...read up on the Wisoconsin
Cheese Exchange.
Anyway, I know that crude is traded as a commodity -
at various grades - what about the finished product?
Price setting is left to the producer at that point,
it would seem.
Christopher
BioD in Germany, not part of my essential argument -
agree. They have an economy of scale on the production
end (France too, largest consumer of BioD) and I
agree, it's probably taxed less.
--- Royce Engler <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
Well, where to begin....
True...there are no "diesel refineries", although
for any given refinery,
the different trains are optimized for process and
stream, and changing the
mix is not exactly trivial. So...if there is an
unanticipated shift in
demand, the refiners can be caught making too much
of one, and not enough of
another. That's part of the planning process that
refinery managers go
through on a regular basis.
"Higher demand" includes a lot of issues. It's not
just transportation,
it's also competition for product and crude from
other countries (i.e. China
and India) and you won't necessarily see the answer
by looking at one small
part (i.e. increased rail shipping).
Contrary to popular mythicism, oil companies can't
any more manipulate the
price of product than the agribusiness folks can
manipulate the price of
corn flakes. The price of product is set on the
commodity markets and is
truly a function of supply and demand.
The low price of BioD in Germany may be a function
of a lot of things
unrelated to the market. Maybe tax advantages for
BioD?
Royce Engler
1985 300TD Turbo 265K
-----Original Message-----
From: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
[mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Behalf Of
Christopher McCann
Sent: Thursday, July 07, 2005 11:36 AM
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: [MBZ] price of diesel...interesting
theory...
I know these threads get tiring, but I am still in
my
first year of "dieseling" and I recall from this
past
winter the mantra "Diesel is always higher in the
winter because of demand for heating oil. Gas is
higher in the summer becuase of the travel season"
Fall agricultural use also uses alot of diesel it
was
said...can't see, personally, how it's more than
planting in winter - it should be less. Plow, till,
rotovate, plant, cultivate, etc...harvest is nothing
in comparison.
ANYWAY, What the hell is the story now?
From what I know, there are no "diesel refineries",
there are oil refineries and all sorts of stuff gets
separated out. It can only be two things, it seems:
1. Higher demand. Well, I doubt that as train
shipping
has jumped substantially (this happens in uncertain
economic times and confirmed by my friend who works
for one of the big rail freight lines) and trains
use
ALOT less diesel to move the same freight as trucks
would. Is trucking up so much to offset this and
create higher demand?
2. Conspiracy (unproveable speculation here). The
oil
companies remember that the '70's oil crisis caused
a
jump in the sale of diesel vehicles. It's happening
again. Many new diesel models introduced. Front
cover
of local car mag advertized the diesel Passat Wagon
at
30-whatever mpg, etc. Fed gov just passed a $4,000
(!)
tax credit for the purchase of a new diesel vehicle.
The oil co's didn't care in the 70's/80's as they
sold
gas and diesel. WHAT IS DIFFERENT NOW is that BioD
is
becoming increasingly popular (log way to go, but no
doubt it is happening). I am wondering if they are
not
keeping the cost high to DISSUADE the purchase of
diesel vehicles which in a few years might be able
to
fill up on BioD for less than dinoD, which will mean
$0 from THAT customer to big oil (unless they are in
the BioD game too (I would be if I were them)).
In Germany BioD is the CHEAPEST fuel available...so
with economy of scale, price will come way down.
(Euro
fuels are so high becuase they are about 70% tax).
Thoughts on the conspiracy theory?
P.S. THe old 240D (new to me) is working great.
Fun...going from the SD to it is like driving a
Mercedes go-cart...peppier than I thought (W115
might
be the reason).
Thanks.
Christopher McCann, Raytown, Missouri
-1985 300SD, 207K miles, "Wulf"
http://don.homelinux.net/mbz/Chris
-1976 240D, ManyK miles, "AKP-Wagen" (Alternativen
Kraftstoffs
Prüfenlastwagen = Alternative Fuel Test Vehicle)
-1998 Toyota Sienna CE, 99K miles, "The Van"
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Christopher McCann, Raytown, Missouri
-1985 300SD, 207K miles, "Wulf" http://don.homelinux.net/mbz/Chris
-1976 240D, ManyK miles, "AKP-Wagen" (Alternativen Kraftstoffs Prüfenlastwagen
= Alternative Fuel Test Vehicle)
-1998 Toyota Sienna CE, 99K miles, "The Van"
__________________________________________________
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Tired of spam? Yahoo! Mail has the best spam protection around
http://mail.yahoo.com
_______________________________________
For used parts email [EMAIL PROTECTED]
For new parts see www.buymbparts.com
For repairs see www.oldworldauto.com
To Unsubscribe or change delivery options go to:
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