Gather round, Y'all and I will fill you in on my cheap A/C experiment for my 400k SDL (Toada/MB hack)
Since Jim Cathy is the inspiration to all us who are broke or cheapskates, I'd like to credit Jim for his assistance and inspiration. I probably would not have started this adventure if not for 2 occurrences: 1: A post from Jim that some Camrys (Camrii?) also have ND 10P15Ccompressors as does my SDL, most 201s and some 124s. 2: The opening of a GenUwine Pick n pull yard within a reasonable distance. Y'all would not be reading this if Jim had not encouraged me to write up my findings. Here is the situation: Been gassing up the A/C on the SDL for each of the last 3 years. Last fall the KLIMA relay bit the dust too. The compressor is leaking out the old seals, so its death is approaching. So in order to avoid the bad car-ma of having bits of the innards of the compressor strewn through the innards of the A/C system, we deemed it was time to buy a new compressor. So, here is the approximate tally: Compressor $475-500 KLIMA ~ $100 Receiver/drier ~$25 Gas ~$25 etc So, in order to keep my cool, I was looking at $700+ for a car the probably would not bring over $1500 on a good day. I decided that was too much to spend on the SDL, wonderful as it is. I was contemplating just using it in the winter and letting it rust away, as a sacrifice to the rust demon. Then the 2 above mentioned incidents occurred in close proximity. On my first foray to the PNP, I was discouraged. I found only 1 10P15C with the right hose setup. A very tired old compressor that looked like it had quit and had the belt cut off years ago. I decided to pass on that one. This week I did some more searching and asked Jim again what cars also had 10P15C compressors. Between Jim and the searches I found out that these cars had the 10P15C compressor: 83-86 Camry 85-87 Corolla Some 4-runners some integra and Lincolns from some year (maybe 85?) to 1991 (there may be more) If your car has a 10PA15C, then that compressor is used on most later Toyotas. Read on for more detail. Armed with this info. I went to the PNP again, a week later. I found some in the Lincolns, but they looked like a bear to get out. It looks like you have to drop the engine/front subframe, then pull the compressor....bad news. So I kept looking. I found LOTS of later Toyotas with 10PA15C compressors. I had some info that many of the later 124s and 126use the 10PA series. My 88TE has the 10PA15C. I know it was said that the P and PA series are NOT interchangeable, but I found a nice clean 10PA15C on a 90 Camry and removed it along with a chunk of both hoses. It was charged, so it looked like a good compressor. Turning it by hand it seemed to work great. I held it up close to a 10P15C and discovered that the manifolds were different sizes and I could NOT use the MB manifold from my P compressor on the PA series. Hmmmmm. I found 2 older camrii with the 10P15C compressor. both looked old and fairly dirty. I decided to try the better looking of the 2. I figured if it held gas, that it was better than the compressor on my car. It had a full charge of gas, so I picked it off. Nice thing about camrii: all you need to pop off the compressor is a 12mm socket and rachet and a 3" extension. 2 bolts for the hoses, 3 bolts for the mounting and snip the wires. It is ALL done form the topside! Wow! SO, I checked out with my haul ($25 each + a $10 core charge) and figured I had at least a couple of options: 1. Swap the clutch and manifold and use the 10P15C from the 86 camry. 2. Figure out a way to bolt up the PA, and have a good reliable compressor, if I can find a MB manifold for it. (Still have to swap the manifold and clutch 3. Figure out the way to bolt up the PA, swap the clutch and do a hack job to use the Toada hose sections spliced into the MB hoses (shudder) (Don't do this on a good car!) When I got back, I took off the compressor form the SDL. It appears it might be the original. If it made 400K, that is pretty good service. I know it made at least 230k, because i have never changed it. Either way, I think it has given good service. Looking at the compressor mount on the engine, it looks like the mount is specific to the P series. I am guessing the PA mount is different. ***If anyone has a spare PA compressor mount on your junker, spare OM 603 or just sitting on a shelf, I'd like to have one!***** I decided in order to get the car in running condition ASAP, i should use the P series from the 86 Camry. If I can find a MB manifold and a OM engine mounting bracket for the PA, then I can try fitting it later. I have not worked on any AC clutch since the old Yorks. Getting the clutch apart was an adventure. First remove a 12 mm nut. The Yorks use a tapered shaft to hold the clutch. The ND has a straight shaft with a key. If you have a puller, you might get one to work for the MB clutch. I pried it off with 2 screwdrivers. Not bad on the MB clutch, but on the toada, it is recessed inside the pulley. On the toada, I used a plastic drift to punch the shaft back. That got it started. then i used a pin punch through the pulley slots to persuade it off. Next is a big snap ring that holds the pulley on. Got those off and removed the pulleys on both compressors. Having the clutch and pulley off, the coil is next. If I wanted to hack the wires on the car, I could just use the same coil. I wanted to keep the car harness original, so I opted to change the coils. The coil is held on by another big snap-ring. when I had both coils off, I started cleaning parts, especially the stuff that was loose and the area around the manifold on both compressors. With clean parts, I installed the MB coil on the Toada compressor, and put on the snap ring. then the pulley and the snap ring. Next was a small spacer that was on the MB shaft but not on the Toada shaft. Then the clutch, secured with a washer and the 12mm (Wrench size) nut. Not too bad, once you figure out how they are put together and how to get the clutch off. I was too late to get gaskets for the manifold and o-rings for the hoses today. One place in town has both, and another could have them in the morning. I forgot to order these from Rusty ahead of time! I ordered a new receiver/drier from Rusty for this one and some more parts for other cars. All that is left now is to swap the manifolds (4 bolts) and install the "new" compressor. It looks like I will have working A/C for less than $100. Not bad for a cheapskate! I have attached a picture of the 3 compressors side by side. On the left is the 90 camry 10PA15C, then the MB compressor, then the 86 camry 10P15C. Note the weird pulley that extends over the clutch on the 86 compressor. That is a pain. Most MB later than 87 have the PA series of compressor. I am not positive which years and models have which. Just look at the tag on the back end of your compressor. Another way to tell is the P series I have seen have the speed sensor wires coming out the rear of the shaft. The PA series have the speed sensor wired coming out the bottom center, on the outside radius. For any of you that have a 10PA series compressor on your MB and want a cheap fix when you compressor craps out: 87 up Camrys are plentiful. Just pick out a newish looking one, make sure it is charged when you take it off (no leakers), remove 5 bolts, snip the wires and take it home. Buy a compressor manifold gasket kit with o-rings (Rusty has them) change out the manifold and clutch and install it. One caveat when reinstalling the clutch: The distance between the pulley and the clutch is critical. The ND clutches seem to be self-spacing. If there is a spacer in your MB Clutch, be sure to transfer it to the "new" compressor. Check the clutch for engagement before you reinstall (energize the coil and be sure the pulley turns with the shaft) Also check the pulley for free spinning with the coil de-energized. One note about SDL A/C: as most of you know, the SDL on R-12 is barely adequate when in slow traffic/city driving. On 134a, you might as well shut off the a/c and open the windows. The 90 Camry had a 10PA17C. This has a slightly larger displacement than the 15C. I would really like to get a MB manifold and the correct mounting bracket for my OM603 engine, because I think this compressor, with a switch back to freeze12 or some other R-12 substitute will give better results than the original. It would be nice to be cool in city driving on 100 degree days! YMMV Loren Faeth -------------- next part -------------- A non-text attachment was scrubbed... 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