Mersenne Digest Sunday, July 18 1999 Volume 01 : Number 599
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 20:17:26 +0200
From: "Steinar H. Gunderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Mersenne: phew
On Fri, Jul 16, 1999 at 10:05:25AM -0700, John R Pierce wrote:
>If I recall, right now we are doing ... ah, I found the
>table on George's site, duh.
It's in commonc.h also, in case you have the Prime95/mprime source :-)
>so how big of a FFT can the current 18.x.x Prime95 handle? Up to 1024K
>FFTs? If so, I guess we still have some headroom...
Yes, but still not enough for decamillion digit primes. Somehow I can
guess people want this (although it will be _awfully_ slow with current
hardware) :-) For the rest of us, however, v18 will be more than good
enough. (Yes, the limit in 1024K.)
/* Steinar */
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Date: Fri, 16 Jul 1999 20:21:27 -0400
From: Pierre Abbat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Mersenne: Laptop users: Automatically suspend sieve, mprime, etc. when off
the grid
- --Boundary-=_nWlrBbmQBhCDarzOwKkYHIDdqSCD
Content-Type: text/plain
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
I run sieve on a laptop, and I don't want to run the battery down with sieve
when it's not plugged in to the wall. So I wrote the following shell scripts,
which start it automatically, run it nicely, and suspend it when the battery is
low. You will have to have APM in your kernel to get anything useful out of
battery. Be sure to change the home dir to yours.
Note: This is run from the crontab every minute. Cron does not use your normal
shell environment. That is why the path to sieve is spelled out.
phma
- --Boundary-=_nWlrBbmQBhCDarzOwKkYHIDdqSCD
Content-Type: application/x-shellscript;
name="batcheck"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="batcheck"
#!/bin/bash
# Checks the battery. If it is not 100%, suspend sieve.
sievepid=`/sbin/pidof sieve`
if [ -z $sievepid ] ; then
if [ -f /home/phma/nfsieve/nfs.out ] ; then
/home/phma/nfsieve/sieben
fi
else
if [ `/usr/bin/battery` = "100%" ] ; then
kill -CONT $sievepid
renice 20 $sievepid >/dev/null
else
kill -STOP $sievepid
fi
fi
- --Boundary-=_nWlrBbmQBhCDarzOwKkYHIDdqSCD
Content-Type: application/x-shellscript;
name="sieben"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="sieben"
#!/bin/sh
/home/phma/nfsieve/sieve -b 5180000 -s 20000 -o /home/phma/nfsieve/nfs.out -r
/home/phma/nfsieve/nfs.restart &
- --Boundary-=_nWlrBbmQBhCDarzOwKkYHIDdqSCD
Content-Type: text/plain;
name="battery"
Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="battery"
#!/bin/sh
cut -f 7 -d " " /proc/apm
- --Boundary-=_nWlrBbmQBhCDarzOwKkYHIDdqSCD--
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Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 07:11:27 -0400 (EDT)
From: Lucas Wiman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Mersenne: General release of the FAQ
I think the FAQ is ready for "general" release.
I have been working on it for 20 days, and it includes most
of the FAQ's and some of the not-so-FAQ's. I have tried
to make it as understandable as possible, though I am not a very
good writer. Please send me any errors in it (technical, spelling,
and gramatical).
There were of course many contributers to it other than me, those were:
Peter Montgomery
Chris Nash
Jud McCraine
Chris Caldwell
Brian Beesley
Ken Kriesel
Pierre Abbat
Jay Hill
Vincent Mooney Jr.
I would like to thank them all. At many points, I directly quoted these
people, so if any of you have problems with that, tell me.
I will register the FAQ with the major search engines in the next few
days. I really hope this FAQ reduces repetition on the mailing list.
thank you all,
Lucas Wiman
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Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 20:01:31 +0200
From: "H" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Mersenne: Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Why cant i get my peronell statistik?
i use
http://entropia.com/cgi-bin/primenet_user.pl?UserID=youraccountID
an i changed my ID?
It worked a couple of days ago!
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Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 15:14:18 -0400
From: "Rick Pali" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Mersenne: Sender: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
From: H
> Why cant i get my peronell statistik?
> i use
> http://entropia.com/cgi-bin/primenet_user.pl?UserID=youraccountID
> an i changed my ID?
> It worked a couple of days ago!
I think you need a password in there somewhere. I can't imagine it working
without it.
Rick.
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Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 17:32:56 -0400
From: George Woltman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Mersenne: The $100,000 award for 10,000,000 digit prime
Hi all,
At the risk of opening Pandora's box, I'd like to bring
up the possibility of splitting up the $100,000 award for a 10 million
digit prime. I'm soliciting everyone's opinion before making a decision.
First off, it is by no means guaranteed that GIMPS will claim the
award. Some have speculated that a search for Proth primes would have a
better chance for success given equal computer power. Furthermore, version
19 will take over a year to test a single 10,000,000 digit number - so
claiming the award is years away. However, a policy needs to be in
place before version 19 is released.
Secondly, I suspect splitting the award will require setting up
a non-profit corporation. If I accept the award personally, I'd have to
pay taxes -- no thanks. If there is anyone with useful insights on
alternatives or how to set up and run a non-profit as cheaply as
possible, please send me a private email.
What follows is a possible list of beneficiaries along with a
few reasons for or against:
1) A charity. There are several GIMPSers that are against any
monetary awards. People should search for primes for love of math
not the love of money. However, an all charity award could defeat
the orinial donor's desire of encouraging advances in distributed
computing.
2) Me. Some would argue that I share some of the credit for any
Mersenne discoveries. Be aware that I will donate any share to charity.
3) Scott Kurowski. He has real expenses in running the PrimeNet server
that should be reimbursed and has been instrumental in GIMPS' growth.
4) The discoverers of any Mersenne primes between now and the 10,000,000
digit discovery. This will encourage an orderly exploration of the exponents
and keep up interest over the coming years.
5) The discoverer of the 10,000,000 digit prime.
6) Save some for Mersenne primes discovered after the 10,000,000 digit
prime. This would be especially useful if the prime is discovered
with lots of untested exponents below it.
7) Anyone that makes a mathematical or algorithmic breakthrough that
speeds up the search process. I'm talking about a doubling in search speed
not a 1% speedup in assembly code.
Suggested rules for discussion on the mailing list: If you'd like to
make a specific proposal (such as "all to charity" or "$50,000 for the
10,000,000 digit prime and $10,000 for all primes between now and then"),
then send me PRIVATE email. Hopefully, I can form a consensus from
these suggestions. Please use the mailing list for discussions on the
benefits and drawbacks of the different choices. I can easily
see this discussion getting out-of-hand with a corresponding increase
in mailing list removal requests!
Best regards,
George
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Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 15:17:07 -0700
From: Luke Welsh <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Mersenne: The $100,000 award for 10,000,000 digit prime
At 05:32 PM 7/17/99 -0400, George Woltman wrote:
> At the risk of opening Pandora's box, I'd like to bring
>up the possibility of splitting up the $100,000 award for a 10 million
>digit prime.
1/3 to George, or a charity of his choice
1/3 to Scott, or as he wishes, e.g. Entropia.com
1/3 to the discover(s)
- --Luke
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Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 15:39:24 -0700
From: Spike Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Mersenne: The $100,000 award for 10,000,000 digit prime
George Woltman wrote:
>4) The discoverers of any Mersenne primes between now and the 10,000,000
>digit discovery. This will encourage an orderly exploration of the exponents
>and keep up interest over the coming years.
You have anticipated my idea, George. The EFF awards should have been
structured this way to start with. Even better would be dividing equally
between George, Scott, discoverers of Mersenne <10^10^7, discover of
the first prime >10^10^7, and me. [kidding on the last part {8^D ] spike
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Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 03:13:56 +0200
From: "Otto Bruggeman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Mersenne: The $100,000 award for 10,000,000 digit prime
> Hi all,
>
> At the risk of opening Pandora's box, I'd like to bring
> up the possibility of splitting up the $100,000 award for a 10 million
> digit prime. I'm soliciting everyone's opinion before making a decision.
I propose we split it like this :
33% to the finder of the first 10,000,000 digit prime,
33% to Scott and George, for doing excellent work
33% to charity, deciding by vote by all the members of gimps, every
doublecheck gives an extra vote over factoring and LL-testing. Just an
incentive to catch up on the doublechecking...
Otto.
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Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 18:33:32 -0700
From: Eric Hahn <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Mersenne: The $100,000 award for 10,000,000 digit prime
George Woltman wrote:
>Hi all,
>
> At the risk of opening Pandora's box, I'd like to bring
>up the possibility of splitting up the $100,000 award for a 10 million
>digit prime. I'm soliciting everyone's opinion before making a decision.
>
1/4 to George or charity (his choice)
1/4 to Scott or charity (his choice)
1/2 to the discover(s) or charity*
*The discover(s) get to chose only if there is orderly
exploration of exponents. Otherwise, it goes to a
charity of their choice.
That would be changed to 20%, 20%, 40%, and 20%, with the
last 20% going to the individual(s) responsible for
increasing the search speed significantly, if such event
occurs.
This promotes an orderly exploration of exponents, yet
allows those who want to find a 10M digit prime just
for fun (and unorderly) to have the opportunity without
being completely penalized. It also encourages the
advancement and development of new algorithms.
This is all, of course, assuming a GIMPser is the
discover(s)...
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Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 21:36:56 -0400
From: Pierre Abbat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Mersenne: Primes for money
What do you call someone who searches for primes only because of the prize
money?
A mersennary.
phma
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Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 22:12:41 -0400
From: "Rick Pali" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: RE: Mersenne: Primes for money
From: Pierre Abbat
> What do you call someone who searches for primes only
> because of the prize money?
>
> A mersennary.
I'd also suggest that they be called 'not too bright.' If someone wants
money, there are lots of far more certain ways...
Rick.
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Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 18:56:28 -0800 (AKDT)
From: "Christopher E. Brown" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Mersenne: The $100,000 award for 10,000,000 digit prime
On Sun, 18 Jul 1999, Otto Bruggeman wrote:
> I propose we split it like this :
> 33% to the finder of the first 10,000,000 digit prime,
> 33% to Scott and George, for doing excellent work
> 33% to charity, deciding by vote by all the members of gimps, every
> doublecheck gives an extra vote over factoring and LL-testing. Just an
> incentive to catch up on the doublechecking...
Ok, but who gets the leftover 1%? (I would vote me of
course).
Just had to go there, given the focus here bad math is just
funny.
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"Anything is possible if you don't know what you're talking about..."
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Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 23:23:06 -0400 (EDT)
From: Chip Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Mersenne: The $100,000 award for 10,000,000 digit prime
The EFF of course, is offering the prize to help the advancement of just
this sort of distributed computing (well, in a simplified nutshell). I
don't think anyone should "profit" from GIMPS, but if we were to win a
huge prize, I think we should use the money as it's intended.
The idea of giving money for people who come up with speed improvements or
large contributions to prime theory is a good one, and certainly anyone
that incurrs expenses (Scott, George... anyone) should be reimbursed...
this is a small part of these prizes.
Here are a few other off the wall ideas... they should be taken
semi-seriously; more as an exercise in lateral thinking than anything
else.
Beyond giving out the money in our own way, we could use it to increase
GIMPs computing power in a few ways. If we started a non-profit
organization, we could buy our own server farms with the money... Hell, we
could double our speed right now by spending $50,000 on vanilla pentiums,
a room, and a huge electric bill. I bet a few people on the group would
volunteer time to keep it up. When the money runs out, donate the
computers to a school or something; even then, the money then becomes well
spent on continuing the computer industry, within parallel computing, and
within education; a worthy cause.
Or this... pay a computer manufacturer to subsidize computer sales to
academia with the requisite that the Prime95 (or similar) software is
installed ahead of time? Or just donate money to high-schools or colleges
to buy computers with the requisite that they help the GIMPs project?
Again, everyone wins, and noone feels greedy.
OR... we could fund the production of sieving/LL testing hardware. I'd
like to see a four inch square cube sitting on my desk running factor.exe
all day. :-)
Advertise... could you imagine advertisements for GIMPs in the Wall Street
Journal? :-) Or a good spot on Cartoon Network or the Sci Fi Channel.
Have a party... wouldn't YOU like to meet the other people working with
GIMPS? Frankly, this wouldn't be THAT expensive, and we could even make
it a symposium or something.... call for papers or research in the area of
computational number theory.
I could go on... but I imagine this is long enough, and people probably
won't make it much further.
Just some ideas. I admit, tho, that although I'm not completely sure what
happend to the current prize money, everyone on the project should at
least have a vote or a word in a discussion about what happens to it.
Later,
- ---Chip
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Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 21:08:47 -0700
From: Spike Jones <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Mersenne: The $100,000 award for 10,000,000 digit prime
Chip Lynch wrote:
> Have a party... wouldn't YOU like to meet the other people working with
> GIMPS? Frankly, this wouldn't be THAT expensive, and we could even make
> it a symposium or something.... call for papers or research in the area of
> computational number theory.
Great idea Chip! I think there's a bunch of GIMPSers that hang out
in Santa Clara county or SF Bay area. We could do something that
wouldnt cost anything, like a potluck picnic at a local park, or a group
hike or just a social gathering. We could see if Scott wanted to come,
and if he showed up we could wax his car, or carry him off the field
on our shoulders, that sorta thing. {8^D Ideas? spike
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Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 21:37:46 -0700
From: "Terry S. Arnold" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Mersenne: Setu for Dual processor NT
I am going to build a dual processor box running NT. How do I set things up
so I get copies of Prime 95 running on each processor. I want to get
maximum bang out of this combination.
Terry
Terry S. Arnold 2975 B Street San Diego, CA 92102 USA
[EMAIL PROTECTED] (619) 235-8181 (voice) (619) 235-0016 (fax)
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Date: Sat, 17 Jul 1999 21:45:23 -0700
From: Gerry Snyder <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Mersenne: Primes for money
Pierre Abbat wrote:
>
> What do you call someone who searches for primes only because > of the prize money?
>
> A mersennary.
I wish I had said that. In fact, I may claim that I did, since it is
such a perfect pun/whatever.
Gerry, feeling uncharacteristically envious
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Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 04:05:04 -0400 (EDT)
From: Lucas Wiman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Mersenne: Meetings (was $100,000...)
> Have a party... wouldn't YOU like to meet the other people working with
> GIMPS? Frankly, this wouldn't be THAT expensive, and we could even make
> it a symposium or something.... call for papers or research in the area of
> computational number theory.
I like the idea of a symposium, I'll bet that colleges would be willing to
host it. In Illinios, we could host it at UIUC (Urbana), ISU (Normal), or
U of C (Chicago). Maybe we should set a number of these up. I would
personally like to meet the GIMPSers in the midwest.
I guess the biggest problem would be coming up with the papers. I don't
mean to offend anyone, but I doubt that many of us are involved enough
(or know enough) to write papers, and such. I suppose those of us with
more interesting computational setups could tell about them, or something.
Those of you with ideas for an Illinios/midwest meeting, write me privately.
Or we could have monthly meetings in coffee shops like 2600 does...
That'd be keen.
- -Lucas Wiman
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Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 08:41:58 +0000 (GMT)
From: Henrik Olsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Mersenne: subtracting 2: error in FAQ
On Wed, 14 Jul 1999, Lucas Wiman wrote:
> All,
> I recieved a message pointing out a possible error in my FAQ:
>
> > Speaking of Q2.6, I've heard that with Crandall's DWT, the subtraction
> > 2 step costs nothing at all. It's done automatically within the
> > transformation. Try checking this with George Woltman.
>
> Is this true?
>
> -Lucas
>From reading the code, as far as I can see, the subtraction cost it the
instructions:
fld MINUS2 ; Start normalization process
fadd BIGVAL ; with a BIGVAL-2.0 carry!
once every iteration, which is very little, though not for free.
The really big save in the algorithm is that the mod operation is not only
for free, but halves the size of the convolution as well, making
everything come out nice and fast.
- --
Henrik Olsen, Dawn Solutions I/S URL=http://www.iaeste.dk/~henrik/
Thomas Daggert to Lucifer:
I have my soul, and I have my faith. What do you have... angel?
The Prophecy
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Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 06:43:30 -0500
From: kilfoyle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Mersenne: Setu for Dual processor NT
Use the -A switch (see the readme) to configure a separate image of the EXE.
ALso set the affinity (under advanced) when it is running so the processor
preference will be set in the control file (one image per processor).
Expect the speed to slow down per instance..
if I run one image it gets .22/LL
if I run two images they get .25/LL
if I run three images they get .33/LL
if I run four images they get .4/LL
go figure ... the overhead is a strange curve.... but at .4/ll with 4 working
it takes about 28 days to complete or 7 days each avg. WHere with one at .22
it would be about 16 days for one LL.
(if I run factors with the 4 processors they each complete a factor a day)
4 - 500mhz Xeon's w/2MB L2 and 1GB RAM
Michael..
"Terry S. Arnold" wrote:
> I am going to build a dual processor box running NT. How do I set things up
> so I get copies of Prime 95 running on each processor. I want to get
> maximum bang out of this combination.
>
> Terry
> Terry S. Arnold 2975 B Street San Diego, CA 92102 USA
> [EMAIL PROTECTED] (619) 235-8181 (voice) (619) 235-0016 (fax)
> _________________________________________________________________
> Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm
> Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers
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Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 10:55:59 -0400 (EDT)
From: Chip Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Mersenne: Setu for Dual processor NT
> Use the -A switch (see the readme) to configure a separate image of the EXE.
> ALso set the affinity (under advanced) when it is running so the processor
> preference will be set in the control file (one image per processor).
Is there any way to set the affinity under NT automatically when a service
starts up? Some of the machines I run this stuff on are multi-os, and I
very often switch between them, which means rebooting a lot. And I never
remember to set my affinities by hand againwhen I come back into NT. It
just kills performance in NT, tho, if you don't have the affinities set up
right. Doe UNIX variants have the same problem? I.E. Naieve timesharing
across CPUs with the huge resulting overhead? Just curious.
- ---Chip
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Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 11:02:39 -0400 (EDT)
From: Chip Lynch <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Mersenne: Meetings (was $100,000...)
> I like the idea of a symposium, I'll bet that colleges would be willing to
> host it. In Illinios, we could host it at UIUC (Urbana), ISU (Normal), or
> U of C (Chicago). Maybe we should set a number of these up. I would
> personally like to meet the GIMPSers in the midwest.
Just for completeness, I'm in Washington, DC... so I'm game for an East
Coast gathering as well. ;-) Although I'd like to see one nationally...
that's where prize money could come into play.
As for research papers, judging from the conversations on the list here, I
imagine some people could come up with topics. Either way, there's no
reason that input needs to be limited to GIMPsters, especially if we host
at a university. I think student papers are always interesting, and there
are bound to be people out there who haven't learned of the glory of being
in GIMPs. Maybe we could win some CPU years from the Bovine people, or
the fledgling SETI people as a result. ;-)
GIMPS is best! Or something like that.
- ---Chip
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Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 13:10:08 -0400
From: "Geoffrey Faivre-Malloy" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Mersenne: Factoring & LL tests
I was reading Fermat's Enigma today and something occurred to me...would it
be possible to work with a number quicker if we used a higher base? I.E.
Use base 32 instead of base 10? Thus, you're doing less math. Of course,
this would have to be in software because the floats can't be in that base.
G-Man
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 14:01:53 -0400
From: Jud McCranie <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Mersenne: Factoring & LL tests
At 01:10 PM 7/18/99 -0400, Geoffrey Faivre-Malloy wrote:
>I was reading Fermat's Enigma today and something occurred to me...would it
>be possible to work with a number quicker if we used a higher base? I.E.
>Use base 32 instead of base 10?
Multiple precision arithmetic operations do that.
+----------------------------------------------+
| Jud "program first and think later" McCranie |
+----------------------------------------------+
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 18 Jul 1999 13:51:51 -0500
From: kilfoyle <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Mersenne: Setu for Dual processor NT
If you use the affinity option under advanced it will set the CPU number into the
ini file for that image. So if you have 2 CPU and two icons (one using the -A1
switch) then the exe image will use the proper affinity as found in the ini file
for that icon.
regards
Michael..
Chip Lynch wrote:
> > Use the -A switch (see the readme) to configure a separate image of the EXE.
> > ALso set the affinity (under advanced) when it is running so the processor
> > preference will be set in the control file (one image per processor).
>
> Is there any way to set the affinity under NT automatically when a service
> starts up? Some of the machines I run this stuff on are multi-os, and I
> very often switch between them, which means rebooting a lot. And I never
> remember to set my affinities by hand againwhen I come back into NT. It
> just kills performance in NT, tho, if you don't have the affinities set up
> right. Doe UNIX variants have the same problem? I.E. Naieve timesharing
> across CPUs with the huge resulting overhead? Just curious.
>
> ---Chip
>
> \\ ^ //
> (o o)
> ---oOO--(_)--OOo------------------------------------
> | Chip Lynch | Computer Guru |
> | [EMAIL PROTECTED] | |
> | (703) 465-4176 (w) | (202) 362-7978 (h) |
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------------------------------
End of Mersenne Digest V1 #599
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