Mersenne Digest Monday, September 13 1999 Volume 01 : Number 625
----------------------------------------------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 02:09:20 -0400
From: Bryan Fullerton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Mersenne: Mailing list archive
Is anyone maintaining a current archive of the list? I'd be glad to host
such a beast, but hosting archives that only go up to Feb 1998 seems, well,
silly.
Do the .zip files below include the swish configuration, or just the messages?
Bryan
On Sun, Sep 12, 1999 at 12:42:14AM -0500, Conrad Curry <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> By the end of next week I will remove the mailing list
> archive search function. The index for the archive occupies
> 1/3 of my disk quota. Considering how little it has been
> used, I can make better use of this disk space. I hope
> someone else would be willing to rebuild the index and host
> it. The mailing list messages up to Feb. 98 can be found
> below (about 4.2Mb).
>
> ftp://ftp.netdoor.com/users/acurry/archive1.zip
> ftp://ftp.netdoor.com/users/acurry/archive2.zip
> ftp://ftp.netdoor.com/users/acurry/archive3.zip
> ftp://ftp.netdoor.com/users/acurry/archive4.zip
> ftp://ftp.netdoor.com/users/acurry/archive5.zip
>
> I used swish http://sunsite.berkeley.edu/SWISH-E/
> for the search engine.
>
>
> _________________________________________________________________
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 02:18:18 -0400 (EDT)
From: Lucas Wiman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Mersenne: Mailing list archive
> By the end of next week I will remove the mailing list
> archive search function. The index for the archive occupies
> 1/3 of my disk quota. Considering how little it has been
> used, I can make better use of this disk space. I hope
> someone else would be willing to rebuild the index and host
> it. The mailing list messages up to Feb. 98 can be found
> below (about 4.2Mb).
Why not host it on xoom.com or something? They offer
free unlimited space.
- -Lucas
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------------------------------
Date: Sat, 11 Sep 1999 23:50:26 -0700
From: "John R Pierce" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Mersenne: Mailing list archive
> > By the end of next week I will remove the mailing list
> > archive search function. The index for the archive occupies
> > 1/3 of my disk quota. Considering how little it has been
> > used, I can make better use of this disk space. I hope
> > someone else would be willing to rebuild the index and host
> > it. The mailing list messages up to Feb. 98 can be found
> > below (about 4.2Mb).
>
> Why not host it on xoom.com or something? They offer
> free unlimited space.
'Free' webservers like xoom.com generally don't allow any custom scripting,
further, don't they insert spam on every page? no thanks!
actually, I have my own webserver here at home now, its a linux box on a
768k SDSL line and it has plenty of space. But I've got no experience in
setting up a mail list archive w/ a useful search capability. if someone
else wants to do this, I'd be glad to setup an account for them to work in,
- -jrp
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:23:09 +0200
From: "Steinar H. Gunderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Mersenne: Re: Crazy thought of the day...
On Thu, Sep 09, 1999 at 04:01:03PM -0600, Blosser, Jeremy wrote:
>Anyway, since the Dreamcast runs WinCE
Actually, it doesn't. The Dreamcast has no OS at all, due to delays from
MS in getting a port done. It is true that some of the games will use WinCE
as the OS (included on the game CD/cartridge/whatever they use), but far
from all.
/* Steinar */
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------------------------------
Date: Sun, 12 Sep 1999 11:27:09 +0200
From: "Steinar H. Gunderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Mersenne: Re: error in V19??!?
On Sat, Sep 11, 1999 at 11:08:35AM -0700, John R Pierce wrote:
>Possible hardware failure, consult the readme file.
>Continuing from last save file.
>[Sat Sep 11 11:04:20 1999]
>Disregard last error. Result is reproducible and thus not a hardware
>problem.
Do exactly as it says: disregard the error. Such errors usually pop up
close to the end of the FFT breakpoints. (I don't have those in my head,
though. You can always look them up somewhere.)
/* Steinar */
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------------------------------
Date: Fri, 10 Sep 1999 23:00:32 +0200
From: "Otto Bruggeman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Mersenne: Error PrimeNet
Hi,
PrimeNet does not yet list celeron as a processor type in the full stats,
yet I can select it in prime95 v19b.
Otto.
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 12:05:36 +0200
From: FOSSANO Patrick OCISI <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Mersenne: Proth Numbers
Hi.
Does someone know if "k" and "n" should be of a particular type
(even/odd, or n=4kp+3q! or what else...) for 1 + k.2^n to be a good
prime candidate?
Thank you,
Patrick
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 08:03:03 -0700
From: "Scott Kurowski" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Mersenne: PrimeNet Proxy Service for v19
Hi all,
The PrimeNet 4.0 Proxy Service (for Windows) has been updated to support v19.
It will support Prime95.exe or NTPrime.exe v19 using RpcNet.dll that ships in
the v19 zip file. Just as before, it statelessly channels and maps RPC to RPC
or HTTP transactions with PrimeNet.
(v19 beta version) http://entropia.com/primenet/v19pnProxy.zip
Regards,
scott
(thanks, Brian B.)
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:14:12 -0400
From: Tom Goulet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Mersenne: complaint
- --SnV5plBeK2Ge1I9g
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii
Content-Transfer-Encoding: quoted-printable
Greetings all,
Firstly I think the GIMPS is a great thing and stuff, but I wish to offer
constructive feedback. If I'm venting in the wrong place, just let me know.
If you must flame me, do it off-list. :)
I'm one of many who got fed up with distributed.net and cracking rc5des.
So I hunted for another project to devote my spare CPU power, and I thought
the gimps was cool.
I had trouble finding the gimps, and the gimps client, and instructions on
how to join. I found www.mersenne.org and entropia.com. I still don't
understand the relationship between the two, and I would like to.
I read some documentation about the gimps and I didn't understand most of
the questions. But that's ok, I'm not overly interested in the actual
mathematics involved.
The GIMPS clients does a lot of self-testing...is that really needed?
Also, I can get the client to segfault at least two different ways.
The 'packet' sizes are very large...I have lost weeks of work due to
power failures and friends.
I also accidentally ran two or three instances of the client, and it compla=
ined
about it's work file or something, and delete it. 89% complete doing whate=
ver
it was doing, and it restarted at 0.
So anyways, my comments can be summed up in that it isn't easy for the newb=
ie
(even the very nerdy types like myself) to find their way around the gimps
project and become efficient contributers.
Now, distributed.net (yes, I hear some moans) has a very slick interface, a=
nd
helpful documentation and navigable websites and easy to understand overall
structure. (I will be writing another letter to dnet sometime soon...
complaining that they have all these neat things and are wasting them.)
=20
Hopefully this explains to some of you why the gimps is not growing very fa=
st.
Please forgive me if I was rude, responses are welcome. :)
TomG
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 21:54:21 -0400 (EDT)
From: "Vincent J. Mooney Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Mersenne: complaint
Tom, your e-mail is polite and proper.
Try running GIMPS manually, off the distributed system. Reserve a few exponents
and run then by "Manual Operation".
At 09:14 PM 9/13/99 -0400, you wrote:
>Greetings all,
>
>Firstly I think the GIMPS is a great thing and stuff, but I wish to offer
>constructive feedback. If I'm venting in the wrong place, just let me know.
>If you must flame me, do it off-list. :)
>
>I'm one of many who got fed up with distributed.net and cracking rc5des.
>
>So I hunted for another project to devote my spare CPU power, and I thought
>the gimps was cool.
>
>I had trouble finding the gimps, and the gimps client, and instructions on
>how to join. I found www.mersenne.org and entropia.com. I still don't
>understand the relationship between the two, and I would like to.
>
>I read some documentation about the gimps and I didn't understand most of
>the questions. But that's ok, I'm not overly interested in the actual
>mathematics involved.
>
>The GIMPS clients does a lot of self-testing...is that really needed?
>
>Also, I can get the client to segfault at least two different ways.
>
>The 'packet' sizes are very large...I have lost weeks of work due to
>power failures and friends.
>
>I also accidentally ran two or three instances of the client, and it complained
>about it's work file or something, and delete it. 89% complete doing whatever
>it was doing, and it restarted at 0.
>
>So anyways, my comments can be summed up in that it isn't easy for the newbie
>(even the very nerdy types like myself) to find their way around the gimps
>project and become efficient contributers.
>
>Now, distributed.net (yes, I hear some moans) has a very slick interface, and
>helpful documentation and navigable websites and easy to understand overall
>structure. (I will be writing another letter to dnet sometime soon...
>complaining that they have all these neat things and are wasting them.)
>
>Hopefully this explains to some of you why the gimps is not growing very fast.
>
>Please forgive me if I was rude, responses are welcome. :)
>
>TomG
>
>
>Attachment Converted: C:\NETSCAPE\EUDORA\Mersenne
>
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 22:16:58 -0400
From: Bryan Fullerton <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Mersenne: complaint
On Mon, Sep 13, 1999 at 09:14:12PM -0400, Tom Goulet <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> wrote:
>
> I had trouble finding the gimps, and the gimps client, and instructions on
> how to join. I found www.mersenne.org and entropia.com. I still don't
> understand the relationship between the two, and I would like to.
My very basic understanding:
George Woltman - runs mersenne.org, wrote the GIMPS/PrimeNet x86 client
Scott Kowalski - founder of entropia.com, responsible for the GIMPS/PrimeNet
server
> The GIMPS clients does a lot of self-testing...is that really needed?
I think so - better to find out if there's a problem before wasting all those
cycles, no? It doesn't do *that* much. <shrug>
> Also, I can get the client to segfault at least two different ways.
>From this, I'm assuming you're using the Linux or FreeBSD client - I'm sure
the people who work on those ports would be interested in your input.
(ie actually tell them how you get it to segfault, maybe they can fix it :)
> The 'packet' sizes are very large...I have lost weeks of work due to
> power failures and friends.
This seems odd to me. The default time between updating the disk-based
copy of the work is 30 minutes - unless you changed that setting, it should
be writing a copy to disk at that interval.
> I also accidentally ran two or three instances of the client, and it complained
> about it's work file or something, and delete it. 89% complete doing whatever
> it was doing, and it restarted at 0.
Not a problem with the Win9x/NT client - it just brings the running client
to the front. I haven't experienced this problem when I've accidentally
run a couple (haven't run three) clients off the same directory, but I'm not
saying it couldn't happen. Again, perhaps something for the *NIX porters
to look at - perhaps drop a lockfile with a pid and check it on startup?
Bryan
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 23:24:12 -0400
From: George Woltman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Mersenne: complaint
Hi all,
At 09:14 PM 9/13/99 -0400, Tom Goulet wrote:
>I wish to offer constructive feedback.
>If you must flame me, do it off-list. :)
Constructive criticism is always welcome, although you will likely
get some flames :)
>So I hunted for another project to devote my spare CPU power, and I thought
>the gimps was cool.
Welcome aboard. There are other cool projects listed at
http://www.mersenne.org
>I had trouble finding the gimps, and the gimps client, and instructions on
>how to join. I found www.mersenne.org and entropia.com. I still don't
>understand the relationship between the two, and I would like to.
GIMPS came first. I wrote all the math parts of the software and managed
it all by email. When this became to much to handle, Scott Kurowski
of Entropia.com stepped in to help by automating assignments and
results collection through a central server.
Entropia.com is a corporation with some visionary ideas on the future
of distributed computing. Entropia.com is using GIMPS as a testbed for
Scott's ideas.
Unfortunately, this leads to a somewhat confusing GIMPS presence on the
web. Mersenne.org pages have a different look and feel than the entropia.com
pages and there is confusion as to which set of pages to go to for a
particular piece of information.
>The GIMPS clients does a lot of self-testing...is that really needed?
Not any more. In the old days, the one-hour self-test was the only
way prime95 was able to detect faulty machines. Now there is a test done
on each iteration so that faulty machines are discovered eventually.
The self-test/torture-test is now useful for people that want to stress
test a new computer - and yes a surprising number of machines fail
prime95's torture test even when all other programs run perfectly.
>Also, I can get the client to segfault at least two different ways.
Please send the particulars by private email.
>The 'packet' sizes are very large...I have lost weeks of work due to
>power failures and friends.
The math algorithms are the cause of the large 'packet' sizes - and
the problem is only going to get worse. It won't be long before a
single exponent takes one to three months to test.
Smaller packets would require using lots of bandwidth and server storage
to store intermediate files. Also, the end result would only be as reliable
as the buggiest machine that worked on the result. In other words, one
overclocked CPU could pollute dozens of results with smaller work units.
>I also accidentally ran two or three instances of the client, and it
complained
>about it's work file or something, and delete it. 89% complete doing
whatever
>it was doing, and it restarted at 0.
Such problems are rare. The program creates two save files, created every
half hour, so that if one is bad it can use the previous one. I've only
had a few complaints where both save files were corrupt. If you cannot
isolate the cause, you could try making daily backups of the pNNNNNNN
and qNNNNNNN files.
BTW, I think version 16 or 17 fixed a bug where running two instances
played havoc with the save files. If you have a reproducible case in
version 18, please let me know.
>So anyways, my comments can be summed up in that it isn't easy for the newbie
>(even the very nerdy types like myself) to find their way around the gimps
>project and become efficient contributers.
>Now, distributed.net (yes, I hear some moans) has a very slick interface, and
>helpful documentation and navigable websites and easy to understand overall
>structure.
This is my fault. I believe d.net has many people working on the client
and server. GIMPS is basically run by myself and Scott. My interests are
in the math and optimization aspects of the program. Thus, given a choice
between making the web pages slicker, adding a nice setup program, writing
a hefty help file, or speeding up and making more use of the P-1 factoring
code, then I'll choose the latter simply because I enjoy that more.
That said, I do take enough pride in my work to make sure bugs are fixed
promptly and the user interface gets a few new features each release.
Actually, many find it very easy to install and run but get confused when
trying to figure out what the program is doing.
>Hopefully this explains to some of you why the gimps is not growing very
fast.
Believe it or not, growing GIMPS at the fastest possible rate is not
my personal goal (Scott and many other GIMPS members probably wish it was!)
I find it more rewarding when a GIMPS member has always been interested
in primes and number theory or when GIMPS inspires someone to discover
the joy of recreational mathematics.
>Please forgive me if I was rude, responses are welcome. :)
You weren't rude and certainly no offense was taken. You may spark
an interesting and lively debate.
Best regards,
George
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------------------------------
Date: Tue, 14 Sep 1999 07:22:35 +0200 (CEST)
From: Henrik Olsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Mersenne: complaint
This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
Send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for more info.
- --671762-1778217790-937286555=:3569
Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII
On Mon, 13 Sep 1999, Tom Goulet wrote:
> Greetings all,
Greetings to you as well.
<snippets>
> Also, I can get the client to segfault at least two different ways.
Let me guess, low memony cause segfault at startup?
This one has been announced as being fixed when v19 comes for Linux.
>
> The 'packet' sizes are very large...I have lost weeks of work due to
> power failures and friends.
Well, that depends a bit on how you look at it.
In d.net, I think the smallest 'packet' is 2^28 numbers to test, whereas
in gimps, the 'packet' size is 1(one) number, it's difficult to get much
smaller. :)
>
> I also accidentally ran two or three instances of the client, and it complained
> about it's work file or something, and delete it. 89% complete doing whatever
> it was doing, and it restarted at 0.
Since I use RedHat, I avoid this by writing an init.d script to start and
stop mprime, this handles locking and such, and as long as that's what I
use to start/stop mprime, I'm safe.
Since it's so small I've taken the liberty to attach it, do with it what
you want.
>
> So anyways, my comments can be summed up in that it isn't easy for the newbie
> (even the very nerdy types like myself) to find their way around the gimps
> project and become efficient contributers.
Personally I found installing and running it to be an extremely smooth
operation, to the point where it takes less that 2 minutes to install on a
new machine, including configuration, after which I just forget about it.
>
> Now, distributed.net (yes, I hear some moans) has a very slick interface, and
> helpful documentation and navigable websites and easy to understand overall
> structure. (I will be writing another letter to dnet sometime soon...
> complaining that they have all these neat things and are wasting them.)
As George said, this is a natural consequence of having one programmer,
and one who is mostly interested in making the program go faster.
At least with version 17.1 you could get the source and play around with
an interface of your own, but that's another thread:)
>
> Hopefully this explains to some of you why the gimps is not growing very fast.
I don't want gimps to grow too fast, 'course then all the small numbers
will be tested, and I'll have to wait even longer for each result:)
>
> Please forgive me if I was rude, responses are welcome. :)
I didn't see any rudeness, only politely written opinions, which is
something completely different.
>
> TomG
>
>
- --
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Luke: No.
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------------------------------
Date: Mon, 13 Sep 1999 23:27:27 -0700 (PDT)
From: poke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Subject: Re: Mersenne: complaint
This message is in MIME format. The first part should be readable text,
while the remaining parts are likely unreadable without MIME-aware tools.
Send mail to [EMAIL PROTECTED] for more info.
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Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; CHARSET=us-ascii
Content-ID: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
Just as a side note, these comments are precious because they come from
the viewpoint of someone who is very new to GIMPS. New people are just
the ones we are trying to attract and I can't help but wonder how many
participants we lost becuase they did not have the tenacity of Tom. Just
my 2c worth...
- -Chuck
On Mon, 13 Sep 1999, Tom Goulet wrote:
> Greetings all,
>
> Firstly I think the GIMPS is a great thing and stuff, but I wish to offer
> constructive feedback. If I'm venting in the wrong place, just let me know.
> If you must flame me, do it off-list. :)
>
> I'm one of many who got fed up with distributed.net and cracking rc5des.
>
> So I hunted for another project to devote my spare CPU power, and I thought
> the gimps was cool.
>
> I had trouble finding the gimps, and the gimps client, and instructions on
> how to join. I found www.mersenne.org and entropia.com. I still don't
> understand the relationship between the two, and I would like to.
>
> I read some documentation about the gimps and I didn't understand most of
> the questions. But that's ok, I'm not overly interested in the actual
> mathematics involved.
>
> The GIMPS clients does a lot of self-testing...is that really needed?
>
> Also, I can get the client to segfault at least two different ways.
>
> The 'packet' sizes are very large...I have lost weeks of work due to
> power failures and friends.
>
> I also accidentally ran two or three instances of the client, and it complained
> about it's work file or something, and delete it. 89% complete doing whatever
> it was doing, and it restarted at 0.
>
> So anyways, my comments can be summed up in that it isn't easy for the newbie
> (even the very nerdy types like myself) to find their way around the gimps
> project and become efficient contributers.
>
> Now, distributed.net (yes, I hear some moans) has a very slick interface, and
> helpful documentation and navigable websites and easy to understand overall
> structure. (I will be writing another letter to dnet sometime soon...
> complaining that they have all these neat things and are wasting them.)
>
> Hopefully this explains to some of you why the gimps is not growing very fast.
>
> Please forgive me if I was rude, responses are welcome. :)
>
> TomG
>
>
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