Mersenne Digest Friday, February 4 2000 Volume 01 : Number 687 ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 22:34:46 +0000 From: "Steinar H. Gunderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Mersenne: Re: Icon On Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 03:56:01PM -0500, Vincent J. Mooney Jr. wrote: >I am using WIN 98. How do I set up an icon on the desktop to kick off >PRIME95 (as I needed to do twice today when the dang computer crashed)? The right thing would be putting it either in the Startup folder (on the start menu), or by following this procedure: 1. Open the Prime95 window. 2. Select Advanced/Password, and enter 9876. (I'm not sure if you need to do this.) Click OK. 3. Select Options/Windows 95/98 service. 4. Select Options/Tray Icon. If you set Prime95 up this way, it will run even if you're not logged in, and automatically on system startup. /* Steinar */ - -- Homepage: http://members.xoom.com/sneeze/ _________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 19:58:17 -0500 From: "Vincent J. Mooney Jr." <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Mersenne: Re: Icon I did all that, following your instructions. Prime95 disappears when I minimize it. It used to be on the taskbar (right word?) at the bottom of the WIN98 screen. Can't there be an icon on the desktop, as I originally asked? Also, is there a FAQ about this? At 10:34 PM 2/2/00 +0000, you wrote: >On Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 03:56:01PM -0500, Vincent J. Mooney Jr. wrote: >>I am using WIN 98. How do I set up an icon on the desktop to kick off >>PRIME95 (as I needed to do twice today when the dang computer crashed)? > >The right thing would be putting it either in the Startup folder (on the >start menu), or by following this procedure: > >1. Open the Prime95 window. >2. Select Advanced/Password, and enter 9876. (I'm not sure if you need to > do this.) Click OK. >3. Select Options/Windows 95/98 service. >4. Select Options/Tray Icon. > >If you set Prime95 up this way, it will run even if you're not logged in, >and automatically on system startup. > >/* Steinar */ >-- >Homepage: http://members.xoom.com/sneeze/ >_________________________________________________________________ >Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm >Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers > _________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 18:16:14 PST From: "Dennis Peter" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Mersenne: Re: P-1 factoring Will this P-1 factoring step take place ONLY before a LL test, or will it also be part of the trial factoring step? The reason why I'm asking is because one of my machines is a dedicated 486 to work on trial factoring only. It has 16MB RAM. The hard disk is *very* slow, so when it thrashes, my 486 is essentially rendered useless. I would really like an option to turn P-1 off in that case. As for memory, try the GlobalMemoryStatus() call in Windows. 2 of the items in the structure are dwAvailPhys, and dwAvailVirtual. You can use that info. Also, a request: I also have a dual processor system running GIMPS... therefore I have 2 instances of GIMPS running. Can you detect multiple processors in a future version? Thanks, Dennis ______________________________________________________ Get Your Private, Free Email at http://www.hotmail.com _________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 2 Feb 2000 22:19:15 -0500 (EST) From: Lucas Wiman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Mersenne: Re: P-1 factoring > Will this P-1 factoring step take place ONLY before a LL test, or will it > also be part of the trial factoring step? > > The reason why I'm asking is because one of my machines is a dedicated 486 > to work on trial factoring only. It has 16MB RAM. The hard disk is *very* > slow, so when it thrashes, my 486 is essentially rendered useless. The P-1 step would become a fourth work assignment (to be done after a number has been trial factored, but before it has had an LL test run on it). Much like how the trial factoring and LL test are done on separate computers. - -Lucas Wiman _________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Wed, 02 Feb 2000 20:15:10 -0800 From: Stefan Struiker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Mersenne: SMP GIMPSing And Sharing The Burden Team M: Does the L-L process lend itself to some parallelization (not the running of multiple copies) over N processors? I have a short monograph on Amdahl's Law to squeeze out, and I thought I might use L-L as an example, bad or good. Best To All, Stefanovic PS: Amdahl's Law relates Maximum Speedup to a fraction f ( < 1 ) of ops that must be done sequentially, and the number p of available processors: 1 / MaxSpeedRoom = f + (1 - f) / p _________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 06:29:09 +0100 (CET) From: Henrik Olsen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Mersenne: SMP GIMPSing And Sharing The Burden On Wed, 2 Feb 2000, Stefan Struiker wrote: > Team M: > > Does the L-L process lend itself to some parallelization > (not the running of multiple copies) over N processors? > > I have a short monograph on Amdahl's Law to squeeze out, > and I thought I might use L-L as an example, bad or good. Since the L-L test for 2^P-1 consists of a sequence of P-2 steps, each consisting of squaring the result of the previous step and subtracting 2 (mod 2^P-1), the ability to parallelize is essentially lost, except for possible multiprocessor implementations of the squaring step, which in that case will be bound by the speed of inter-processor communication. > > Best To All, > Stefanovic > > PS: Amdahl's Law relates Maximum Speedup to a fraction f ( < 1 ) of > ops that must be done sequentially, and the number p of available > processors: > > 1 / MaxSpeedRoom = f + (1 - f) / p > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm > Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers > - -- Henrik Olsen, Dawn Solutions I/S URL=http://www.iaeste.dk/~henrik/ Darth Vader: Luke, come to the dark side. Luke: No. Darth Vader: Your goodness has redeemed me. Die, emperor scum. Return of the Jedi, the Movie-A-Minute version _________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 14:34:19 +0000 From: "Steinar H. Gunderson" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Mersenne: Re: Icon On Wed, Feb 02, 2000 at 07:58:17PM -0500, Vincent J. Mooney Jr. wrote: >Prime95 disappears when I minimize it. It used to be on the taskbar (right >word?) at the bottom of the WIN98 screen. Prime95 doesn't disappear -- if you look in your system tray, you will find a small Prime95 icon that you can double-click to reveal the big window. If you really want it to be on the taskbar taking up space all the time, you can just deselect `Tray Icon'. >Can't there be an icon on the desktop, as I originally asked? Yes, there can, although I don't know why you'd want it. Right-click on your desktop, choose New/Shortcut, and follow the steps for making a shortcut to prime95.exe. >Also, is there a FAQ about this? See the README.TXT file that is included in the zip-file. In answers most of your questions, although not the `icon on desktop' problem. /* Steinar */ - -- Homepage: http://members.xoom.com/sneeze/ _________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 09:53:17 -0800 From: Barry Hansen <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Mersenne: Version 20 memory questions Here is one (lonely?) vote to set the defaults rather high. I have some over-generalizations that encourage you to let the system manage memory itself. I expect that Mersenne generally runs on the fastest machines, which tend to have lots of memory. I think it's great we can put it to use! If the machine bogs down, provide some simple dial to let the user manually recover the performance. In attempting to out-guess the operating systems' memory management scheme lies madness. There are too many platforms and too many PC types to do this effectively. Instead, your time may be better used by finding quick, simple, intuitive ways for users to control the program. I'm in favor of your daily scheduling, and perhaps a "wait +30 minutes" button that's very easy to press. NT manages its resources better than 95/98. A well-tuned OS will expand its working set to fill all physical memory. Like my young boys, I have no problem letting Mersenne run at full tilt, but I want it to meekly submit when it's time to quiet down. Good luck, you're tackling a tough problem! Thanks for checking, Barry "Hydrogen - a colorless and odorless gas which, given enough time, turns into people." _________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 13:07:30 EST From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Mersenne: Re: Smooth and hairy numbers If smooth numbers are ones whose prime factors are all small, what then are hairy numbers? Is there an official definition? "And Jacob said to Rebekah his mother, Behold, Esau my brother is a hairy man, and I am a smooth man:" (Gen. 27:11) George S. _________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 13:48:19 -0500 From: Pierre Abbat <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Mersenne: Re: Smooth and hairy numbers On Thu, 03 Feb 2000, [EMAIL PROTECTED] wrote: >If smooth numbers are ones whose prime factors are all small, >what then are hairy numbers? Is there an official definition? > >"And Jacob said to Rebekah his mother, Behold, Esau my >brother is a hairy man, and I am a smooth man:" (Gen. 27:11) Also, Greek has smooth and rough breathing, called psil� kai daseia. Daseia means hairy. I looked in Eric Weisstein's World of Mathematics and found no hairy numbers. There are, though, a Hairy Ball Theorem (the hair has to have a whorl or other singularity somewhere) and Haar integral, function, measure, and transform (one cycle of a square wave at a power-of-two frequency). phma _________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 03 Feb 2000 14:32:01 -0500 From: George Woltman <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Mersenne: Results of version 20 memory questions Hi everyone, Thanks to all that replied to my earlier email. Here I'll summarize, in no particular order, the important points in the replies It seems the majority of responders feel the prudent decision is for prime95 to use the minimum amount of memory by default. I will have prime95 default to 8MB of memory in the Options/CPU dialog box. If the user leaves this value unchanged I'll pop up a message box explaining why he might want to increase the value. I should also display this message when a user upgrades from v19 to v20. No one suggested a sure-fire method for making sure prime95 is not causing thrashing. Some did suggest Windows calls that will yield useful data - but were vague on how these statistics are to be interpreted. I imagine there isn't a single solution that will satisfy every users setup and thus it is best for prime95 to let the end-user make the decision for his machine. Stage 1 of P-1 stage 1 uses the same amount of memory as a LL test. Thus, even those users that do not give prime95 more memory to work with will do a little P-1 factoring. For example, exponent 10,000,139 P-1 will go to B1=130000 with a 2.02% chance of finding a factor (cost is 1.87% of an LL test). If given 48MB of memory, prime95 uses B1=110000 and B2=1815000 with a 4.15% chance of finding a factor (cost is 3.17% of an LL test). If you give prime95 48MB of memory but only from 11PM to 7AM, then if stage 2 needs to run between 7AM and 11PM prime95 will instead begin work on the next item in the worktodo.ini file or begin the LL test on the assumption you are unlikely to find a factor anyway. P-1 factoring will be a separate work assignment when Scott has the time to make the necessary changes on the PrimeNet server. The initial release of version 20 will probably not have separate assignments. Some suggested prime95 grow and shrink memory usage based on paging rates, etc. Apparently, I did not explain the stage 2 requirements very well. Before embarking on stage 2, prime95 needs to know how much memory it can use. Once stage 2 has begun, prime95 cannot grow or shrink its memory consumption. Best regards, George _________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Thu, 3 Feb 2000 19:42:26 -0900 (AKST) From: Gordon Bower <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Mersenne: The return of poaching? Some of you may have noticed, as I have, that the incomplete double-checks in the 2-2.5M range have been being finished up very quickly the past few weeks, much more so than the past several months. A quick look in the cleared exponents file reveals many recent results reported by a user "rick" who apparently has several fast Pentium IIs doing double-checks. A look in the the assignments file reveals not a single small exponent reserved by this user. Not a big deal in the greater scheme of things, but frustrating to people like diamonddave and myself who make an effort to seek out the smaller exponents and reserve them. I don't know exactly what our policy is on this matter, or what we can do about it the the facts are as they seem to be. But it seemed worth bringing the matter up. Gordon Bower _________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 01:21:15 EST From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] Subject: Mersenne: Re: Mersenne Digest V1 #686 << I am using WIN 98. How do I set up an icon on the desktop to kick off PRIME95 ( >> If the computer crashes, give it the three-fingered salute. Then, if you have Prime95 set as a Win95 Service, it'll start automatically. Stephan "Heil Gates!" Lavavej _________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 04:15:12 -0500 From: "Olivier Langlois" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Mersenne: FW: what do you think about the authenticity of this? Is this story really ?? Where is going our society ?? :-) - -----Original Message----- From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On Behalf Of Blu Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 12:44 PM To: Protected Mode List Subject: OT: what do you think about the authenticity of this? > HUNTSVILLE, Ala.-NASA engineers and mathematicians in this high-tech > city are stunned and infuriated after the Alabama state legislature > narrowly passed a law Monday redefining pi, a mathematical constant > used widely in the aerospace industry. The bill to change the value of pi > to exactly three was introduced without fanfare by Leonard Lee > Lawson (R, Crossville), and rapidly gained support after a letter-writing > campaign by members of the Solomon Society, a traditional values group. > Governor Fob James says he will sign it into law on Wednesday. > > The law took the state's engineering community by surprise. "It would > have been nice if they had consulted with someone who actually uses > pi," said Dr. Marshall Bergman, a manager at the Ballistic Missile Defense > Organization. According to Bergman, pi is a Greek letter used to signify > the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter. It is often used > by engineers to calculate missile trajectories. > > Prof. Kim Johanson, a mathematician from University of Alabama, said > that pi is a universal constant, and cannot arbitrarily be changed by > lawmakers. Johanson explained that pi is an irrational number, which > means that it has an infinite number of digits after the decimal point and > can never be known exactly. Nevertheless, she said, pi is precisely > defined by mathematics to be "3.14159, plus as many more digits as you > have time to calculate." > > "I think that it is the mathematicians that are being irrational, and it is time > for them to admit it," said Lawson. "The Bible very clearly says in I Kings > 7:23 that the altar font in Solomon's Temple was ten cubits across and > thirty cubits in diameter, and that it was round in compass." Lawson > also called into question the usefulness of any number that cannot be > calculated exactly, and suggested that never knowing the exact answer > could harm students' self-esteem. "We need to return to some absolutes > in our society," he said. "The Bible does not say that the font was > thirty-something cubits. Plain reading says thirty cubits. Period." > > Science actually supports Lawson, explained Russell Humbleys, a > propulsion technician at the Marshall Spaceflight Center who testified in > support of the bill before the legislature in Montgomery last week. "Pi is > merely an artifact of Euclidean geometry." Humbleys is working on a > theory which he says will prove that pi is determined by the geometry of > three-dimensional space, which is assumed by physicists to be > "isotropic," or the same in all directions. > > "There are other geometries, and pi is different in every one of them," > said Humbleys. "Scientists have arbitrarily assumed that space is > Euclidean. A circle drawn on a spherical surface has a different value > for the ratio of circumference to diameter. Anyone with a compass, > flexible ruler, and globe can see this for themselves. It's not exactly > rocket science." > > Roger Learned, a Solomon Society member who was in Montgomery to > support the bill, agrees. He said that pi is nothing more than an > assumption by the mathematicians and engineers who were there to > argue against the bill. "Those nabobs waltzed into the capital with an > arrogance that was breathtaking," Learned said. "Their predatorial > deficit resulted in a polemical stance at absolute contraposition to the > legislature's puissance." > > Some education experts believe that the legislation will affect the way > math is taught to Alabama's children. One member of the state school > board, Lily Ponja, is anxious to get the new value of pi into the state's > math textbooks, but thinks that the old value should be retained as an > alternative. "As far as I am concerned, the value of pi is only a theory, > and we should be open to all interpretations." She looks forward to the > day when students will have the freedom to decide for themselves what > value pi should have. > > Dr. Robert S. Dietz, a professor at Arizona State University who has > followed the controversy, wrote that this is not the first time a state > legislature has attempted to redefine the value of pi. A legislator in the > state of Indiana unsuccessfully attempted to have that state set the value > of pi to three. According to Dietz, the lawmaker was exasperated by the > calculations of a mathematician who carried pi to four hundred decimal > places and still could not achieve a rational number. > > Many experts are warning that this is just the beginning of a national > battle over pi between traditional values supporters and the technical > elite. Solomon Society member Lawson agrees. "We just want to return > pi to its traditional value," he said, "which, according to the Bible, is > three." _________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 02:48:35 -0800 From: Stefan Struiker <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Mersenne: FW: what do you think about the authenticity of this? Olivier Langlois wrote: > Is this story really ?? > Where is going our society ?? :-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On > Behalf Of Blu > Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 12:44 PM > To: Protected Mode List > Subject: OT: what do you think about the authenticity of this? I think it is meant as a spoof on the still-current controversy over giving both creationism and Darwinian evolution equal emphasis in education. I hope. Regards, Stefanovic _________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 12:43:07 +0000 From: Alexander Kruppa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Mersenne: FW: what do you think about the authenticity of this? Stefan Struiker wrote: > > Olivier Langlois wrote: > > > alternative. "As far as I am concerned, the value of pi is only a theory, > > and we should be open to all interpretations." She looks forward to the > I think it is meant as a spoof on the still-current controversy over > giving both creationism and Darwinian evolution equal emphasis in education. This line above makes it sound very much like a pun on the creation/evolution debate. And a good one at that. Ciao, Alex. _________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 12:48:19 +0100 From: "Grieken, Paul van" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: RE: Mersenne: FW: what do you think about the authenticity of thi s? ASK THIS LAWSON TO BE A sole MEMBER OF THE NEXT SPACE SHUTTLE WHICH TRIP WILL BE RECALCULATED WITH PHI AS 3. SEE WHAT HE WILLL DO. If he accepts the offer we have a problem less. Pitty off the shuttle, but sometimes you have to make sacrifices > -----Original Message----- > From: Olivier Langlois [SMTP:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] > Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 10:15 AM > To: Mersenne mailing list (E-mail) > Subject: Mersenne: FW: what do you think about the authenticity of > this? > > Is this story really ?? > Where is going our society ?? :-) > > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On > Behalf Of Blu > Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 12:44 PM > To: Protected Mode List > Subject: OT: what do you think about the authenticity of this? > > > > HUNTSVILLE, Ala.-NASA engineers and mathematicians in this high-tech > > city are stunned and infuriated after the Alabama state legislature > > narrowly passed a law Monday redefining pi, a mathematical constant > > used widely in the aerospace industry. The bill to change the value of > pi > > to exactly three was introduced without fanfare by Leonard Lee > > Lawson (R, Crossville), and rapidly gained support after a > letter-writing > > campaign by members of the Solomon Society, a traditional values group. > > Governor Fob James says he will sign it into law on Wednesday. > > > > The law took the state's engineering community by surprise. "It would > > have been nice if they had consulted with someone who actually uses > > pi," said Dr. Marshall Bergman, a manager at the Ballistic Missile > Defense > > Organization. According to Bergman, pi is a Greek letter used to > signify > > the ratio of the circumference of a circle to its diameter. It is often > used > > by engineers to calculate missile trajectories. > > > > Prof. Kim Johanson, a mathematician from University of Alabama, said > > that pi is a universal constant, and cannot arbitrarily be changed by > > lawmakers. Johanson explained that pi is an irrational number, which > > means that it has an infinite number of digits after the decimal point > and > > can never be known exactly. Nevertheless, she said, pi is precisely > > defined by mathematics to be "3.14159, plus as many more digits as you > > have time to calculate." > > > > "I think that it is the mathematicians that are being irrational, and it > is time > > for them to admit it," said Lawson. "The Bible very clearly says in I > Kings > > 7:23 that the altar font in Solomon's Temple was ten cubits across and > > thirty cubits in diameter, and that it was round in compass." Lawson > > also called into question the usefulness of any number that cannot be > > calculated exactly, and suggested that never knowing the exact answer > > could harm students' self-esteem. "We need to return to some absolutes > > in our society," he said. "The Bible does not say that the font was > > thirty-something cubits. Plain reading says thirty cubits. Period." > > > > Science actually supports Lawson, explained Russell Humbleys, a > > propulsion technician at the Marshall Spaceflight Center who testified > in > > support of the bill before the legislature in Montgomery last week. "Pi > is > > merely an artifact of Euclidean geometry." Humbleys is working on a > > theory which he says will prove that pi is determined by the geometry of > > three-dimensional space, which is assumed by physicists to be > > "isotropic," or the same in all directions. > > > > "There are other geometries, and pi is different in every one of them," > > said Humbleys. "Scientists have arbitrarily assumed that space is > > Euclidean. A circle drawn on a spherical surface has a different value > > for the ratio of circumference to diameter. Anyone with a compass, > > flexible ruler, and globe can see this for themselves. It's not exactly > > rocket science." > > > > Roger Learned, a Solomon Society member who was in Montgomery to > > support the bill, agrees. He said that pi is nothing more than an > > assumption by the mathematicians and engineers who were there to > > argue against the bill. "Those nabobs waltzed into the capital with an > > arrogance that was breathtaking," Learned said. "Their predatorial > > deficit resulted in a polemical stance at absolute contraposition to the > > legislature's puissance." > > > > Some education experts believe that the legislation will affect the way > > math is taught to Alabama's children. One member of the state school > > board, Lily Ponja, is anxious to get the new value of pi into the > state's > > math textbooks, but thinks that the old value should be retained as an > > alternative. "As far as I am concerned, the value of pi is only a > theory, > > and we should be open to all interpretations." She looks forward to the > > day when students will have the freedom to decide for themselves what > > value pi should have. > > > > Dr. Robert S. Dietz, a professor at Arizona State University who has > > followed the controversy, wrote that this is not the first time a state > > legislature has attempted to redefine the value of pi. A legislator in > the > > state of Indiana unsuccessfully attempted to have that state set the > value > > of pi to three. According to Dietz, the lawmaker was exasperated by the > > calculations of a mathematician who carried pi to four hundred decimal > > places and still could not achieve a rational number. > > > > Many experts are warning that this is just the beginning of a national > > battle over pi between traditional values supporters and the technical > > elite. Solomon Society member Lawson agrees. "We just want to return > > pi to its traditional value," he said, "which, according to the Bible, > is > > three." > > > > _________________________________________________________________ > Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm > Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers _________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 11:12:09 -0500 From: Jeff Woods <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Mersenne: The return of poaching? I hate to open a can of worms here, but feel I must.... However, I am not a poacher myself, nor do I advocate it. I only write this to tell you why I don't feel sorry for folks who queue up WAY too much work and then gripe about it when someone else calls them on the carpet about it by poaching them. I write this in the hopes that you'll see the error of your ways, and work not just for yourself, but for the good of the group. My conclusion at the end of this message is for George's consideration, and the rest of this message defends this conclusion: George: v20, *and* the PrimeNet server, ought not allow any one machine to keep more than ten times its average communication frequency in exponents queued, and no more than 60 days no matter what -- requests for additional exponents when the server knows that that machine already has two months' work ought to be denied. If a machine reports in every 3 days, let it keep no more than 30 days. If it reports in daily, let it keep ten days. By stopping exponent hogs from locking up hundreds of exponents just because they like the small ones, GIMPS will reach its goals (milestones, proving M37, etc), much faster. - ---------------------------------------------- Dave has at least 80 exponents reserved between 2.4M and 3.99M. Eighty. Almost all are less than suspected M37. It is a certainty that without poaching, we will have to wait until late 2000 or later to prove M37, because Dave is trying to do all the double-checking singlehandedly. I cannot stress this part enough: This is why we have thousands of participants in GIMPS! It is our PRIMARY raison d'etre! To spread around the workload to get things done faster! By trying to take 80 of the 280 or so exponents left for doublechecking up to M37 (nearly 30% to ONE participant!), Dave is intentionally thwarting the very purpose of GIMPS: distributed mathematical research. DISTRIBUTED computing is key! Each of Dave's 80 exponents will take a P-II/400 0.09 seconds per iteration. If the average exponent is closer to 2.8M, here's how much time Dave has set aside: 2.8M x 80 x 0.09 = 20,160,000 seconds DIV 86,400 = 233 days. That's if Dave uses P-II 400's, on PRIMARY tests. Double-checks use a different LL code, and take longer. I doubt Dave is using P-II's for this purpose, too. If it's P-90's, that's 233 x 4.5 (times slower) x 1.2 (times slower to double check, a guess), or 1574 days of work queued up for Dave. I can only find six named machines of Dave's in the work list. 1574 days of work over 6 machines is an AVERAGE of 262 days of work queued up per machine. What a PIG. Why does ANYONE need nine months of work queued up, especially for machines that seem to report back to GIMPS on a daily basis? Many of us want to see results -- we want milestones, we want to see "All exponents less than 3,000,000 have been double checked." We want to see "Double checking proves 3021377 is the 37th Mersenne Prime". Most of Dave's assignments have gone untouched for 30 - 90 days. We don't want to wait a YEAR for this milestone, just because you and a handful of others want to test all the little exponents. Your machines are useful to us, don't get me wrong. Nobody here wants you and Dave (and other exponent hogs) to quit GIMPS. We just want you to reserve a reasonable number of exponents, and take what comes to you. These machines will be equally useful to us whether double-checking 2916117 or 4717123.... and we'll get where we're going faster that way! Dave's machines are permanently connected (or frequently connected) -- they have reported progress nearly daily -- slow, steady progress, but they report. Thus, IMO, Dave should not have his clients set to queue up more than TWO DAYS of work. I set mine at ONE day, so that I don't even get a new assignment until the machine is less than a day away from finishing its exponent and being left with NO work. And that's the way it ought to be - -- nobody ought to even be ABLE to hold up the progress of the group in reaching milestones for this long. When your machine is ALMOST out of work, THAT is the time to request the smallest available exponent OF THAT MOMENT. So, to your paragraph below, there's nothing wrong with seeking out the smallest available exponents.... but there *is* something wrong with seeking out nine months' worth of them, and holding up the very purpose of the group. If Dave gets poached, I won't shed a tear. I'd have done a similar analysis on your assignments, but didn't know your ID. You're probably not as heinous as Dave is, since he appears to be the worst of the lot on cursory inspection, but ANYONE holding more work than necessary is on the list of "won't cry for you, Argentina" folks. MOST folks understand this. There are 26,600 machines right now, and 44,200 exponents assigned -- 1.66 exponents assigned per machine. Since the software defaults to 28 days of queued work, this is understandable. Dozens per machine is just not defensible, under any circumstances (except, perhaps, multi-processor machines, but then ID's would be different). Any defense you'd like to offer for holding 9 months' work, I'll listen to, but I doubt you'll come up with anything convincing. At 07:42 PM 2/3/00 -0900, you wrote: >Not a big deal in the greater scheme of things, but frustrating to people >like diamonddave and myself who make an effort to seek out the smaller >exponents and reserve them. _________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 11:44:09 -0500 From: Jeff Woods <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Mersenne: FW: what do you think about the authenticity of this? It's a joke. Heinlein jokingly wrote in 1969 about some fictionl legislature trying to legislate pi to be exactly three in "Stranger in a Strange Land". Someone else started this urban myth. Here's a reference about it you can trust: http://www.usatoday.com/life/cyber/tech/ctc676.htm Headline: Net hoax on pi just won't die I found this easily, by STFW. I looked for "Leonard Lee Lawson" and found 36 pages, including the link above. All call it a hoax. Heinlein was right, though, in his predictions about societal direction. That's for another forum, though. ;-) At 04:15 AM 2/4/00 -0500, you wrote: >Is this story really ?? >Where is going our society ?? :-) > >-----Original Message----- >From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED]] On >Behalf Of Blu >Sent: Friday, February 04, 2000 12:44 PM >To: Protected Mode List >Subject: OT: what do you think about the authenticity of this? > > > > HUNTSVILLE, Ala.-NASA engineers and mathematicians in this high-tech > > city are stunned and infuriated after the Alabama state legislature > > narrowly passed a law Monday redefining pi, a mathematical constant > > used widely in the aerospace industry. The bill to change the value of pi > > to exactly three was introduced without fanfare by Leonard Lee > > Lawson (R, Crossville), and rapidly gained support after a letter-writing _________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 04 Feb 2000 12:37:40 -0500 From: Jeff Woods <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Mersenne: FW: what do you think about the authenticity of this? I particularly liked the line in which the alleged lawmaker said that the mathematicians were being irrational: > "I think that it is the mathematicians that are being irrational, and it > is time for them to admit it," said Lawson. Of COURSE they're being irrational! It's PI! ;-) At 12:43 PM 2/4/00 +0000, you wrote: > > I think it is meant as a spoof on the still-current controversy over > > giving both creationism and Darwinian evolution equal emphasis in > education. > >This line above makes it sound very much like a pun on the >creation/evolution debate. And a good one at that. _________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ Date: Fri, 4 Feb 2000 18:53:59 +0000 From: Alexander Kruppa <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Subject: Re: Mersenne: The return of poaching? Jeff Woods wrote: > > Dave has at least 80 exponents reserved between 2.4M and > 3.99M. Eighty. Almost all are less than suspected M37. It is a > certainty that without poaching, we will have to wait until late 2000 or > later to prove M37, because Dave is trying to do all the double-checking > singlehandedly. > > [alot more] Some time ago I used to poach, too, taking exponents that were due to expire within 3-5 days and finish them with some leftover PII-400 power, but I stopped when the "evil, evil poaching thread" arose (lets not revive it). Back in those days, I too noticed this "diamonddave" hogging dozens of exponents (I think I even poached one or two) but as I watched him over a longer period of time, I noticed that he actually finished his assigned work quickly and effectively, much more so than the heap of assigned exponents and the number of machines we see lead to believe. He (I believe his real name is David Campeau (sp?)) seems to have enough horsepower to finish the reserved exponents in time, and what I remember from an old posting of his, he actually does it to avoid those small exponents again getting assigned to users who won't finish them, or only very slowly. I stopped worrying about diamonddave, its assignments like 2569667 D 60 52.6 105.2 105.2 20-Jan-00 21:28 14-Dec-99 03:00 Z 2593697 D 60 1482152 322.6 -35.7 24.3 19-Dec-99 01:17 19-Mar-99 03:23 philboy 2593793 D 60 322.6 -8.7 40.3 19-Dec-99 01:17 19-Mar-99 03:23 philboy 2861897 D 60 446026 293.5 -21.0 39.0 05-Jan-00 16:32 17-Apr-99 05:22 SW 2941837 D 60 45517 133.5 -58.3 1.7 26-Nov-99 10:20 24-Sep-99 06:47 gallina that bother me. I actually hope diamonddave will grab them when they expire, and not an user who will again take >300 days for a exponent (and possibly not even finish it). Ciao, Alex. _________________________________________________________________ Unsubscribe & list info -- http://www.scruz.net/~luke/signup.htm Mersenne Prime FAQ -- http://www.tasam.com/~lrwiman/FAQ-mers ------------------------------ End of Mersenne Digest V1 #687 ******************************
