Thank you all for your helpful suggestions.

Thierry's proof of brepval is similar to my "workarounds":  building-up 
equalities or equivalences in lieu of actual substitution.

Alexander's proofs of sbiei and sbieg are so simple and elegant, I'm sorry 
I didn't try it myself.
The challenge will be establishing ( [ y / x ] ph <-> ps ).  Given a 
distinct variable hypothesis $d y ph $.  there should be some (easy?) way 
to show that ps is the same as ph having y substituted for x.

I will look more closely at David's algebra helpers.

--Brian

On Tuesday, December 28, 2021 at 1:46:19 PM UTC-6 David A. Wheeler wrote:

>
>
> > On Dec 27, 2021, at 9:08 PM, Brian Larson <[email protected]> wrote:
> > 
> > I often want to use substitution to do something like this:
> > |- ph & |- x = y |- ( [ y / x ] ph <-> ps ) ==> |- ps
> > But I'm having trouble showing that ps results from the proper 
> substitution of y for x in ph.
> > 
> > Mario wrote some hints:
> > 
> > In Conversation: Trying to generalize David Wheeler's Algebra helpers:
> > 
> > "This isn't the way we usually prove substitutions. df-sb is not really 
> a substitution operator, it is more like a "deferred substitution", a term 
> that is equivalent to the result of the substitution without actually 
> performing it. To actually perform a substitution, we use so-called 
> "equality theorems". These theorems usually end in *eq, *eq1,*eq1i, *eq1d 
> and so on, and prove A = B -> P(A) = P(B) for different values of P. By 
> cobbling them together you can subtitute into any expression." 
>
> Perhaps another way to understand it is that you have to start by showing 
> that two
> simple expressions are equivalent, then use other theorems to build up & 
> prove that the
> larger expressions including them are equivalent.
>
> My "Algebra helpers" were intended to make it easier to skip those steps 
> in common cases.
> I made samples & stopped because I didn't know if anyone would use them.
> Also, I made both deduction form (ph -> ... ) & non-deduction form 
> versions;
> if the deduction forms are all that would be used, well, let's focus on 
> that.
>
> If someone *does* find them useful, let me know, that work could be 
> continued
> if there were actual users :-).
>
> --- David A. Wheeler
>
> > 
> > In Conversation: Breaking news: LTL section valid:
> > 
> > "This kind of statement does not work for metamath, because we don't 
> have a general proper substitution mechanism. The one we have (df-sb) 
> reduces to the metatheorem ( x = y -> F(x) = F(y) ) which still must be 
> provided separately, which is why we need equality theorems or axioms for 
> every primitive operation."
> > 
> > MM> sh st *eq
> > (and *eq1, *eq1i, and *eq1d)
> > return scads of interesting theorems, but I don't understand how to use 
> the "equality theorems" to perform proper substitution.
> > 
> > Please describe the general principle, and give a simple example.
> > 
> > --Brian
> > 
> > 
> > 
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> .
>
>

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