Actually, I'm not even sure if the ax11v → ax-11 rederivation can be 
performed with access to ax-13. The usual approach with distinctors runs 
into |- ( -. A. y y = x -> F/ y A. x A. y ph ), which isn't trivial with 
ax11v. The obvious idea would be to use a proper substitution to change the 
variable and then apply ax11v, but the proper substitution itself would 
require the full ax-11 to move through the quantifier. Perhaps there's a 
more clever kind of substitution that would work?

On Tuesday, October 14, 2025 at 11:00:29 AM UTC-4 Matthew House wrote:

> In set.mm, ax-11 <https://us.metamath.org/mpeuni/ax-11.html> is written 
> as |- ( A. x A. y ph -> A. y A. x ph ), with no DV restrictions between x 
> and y. Can it be derived as a theorem from the weaker form with the 
> additional restriction $d x y, without using ax-13 
> <https://us.metamath.org/mpeuni/ax-13.html>? If not, it would seem like 
> we should create a new ax11v and have everything go through that, the same 
> as ax6v <https://us.metamath.org/mpeuni/ax6v.html> and ax12v 
> <https://us.metamath.org/mpeuni/ax12v.html>.
>
> Matthew House
>

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