Eric postulates... "And this might be offensive to some, and I'm >sorry if offends, but speculating that an anthropomorphic deity >started it, is pure speculation, because no one knows what happened >before, in the beginning, and it creates the creator to explain the >unexplained formation of the observable. Why can't the unexplained >stop and start at "I don't know, lets find out." instead of "god did >it".
Eric, I think the attached article published in the national media today will go a long way toward answering your question. This NASA scientist is described by his fellow workers as an evangelical Christian that insisted on proselytizing at work. http://www.centredaily.com/2012/03/11/3122308/suit-nasa-specialist-axed-over.html Most persons of faith believe they have had revealed to them the entire creation story and aren't interested in anyone trying to change their beliefs. They know, and I believe fear, that to accept any of the science would mean having to strip whole pages out of what they are taught is divine revelation. Respectfully, I suggest you give it up, or take it somewhere else. Count Deiro IMCA 3536 -----Original Message----- >From: e...@meteoritesusa.com >Sent: Mar 11, 2012 9:08 PM >To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites Reveal Another Way to Make Life's >Components > >Good points Richard, Michael, (I will apologize in advance for the >length of this post; I started writing a couldn't stop) > >Divine Creation vs Natural Formation. That is the question. That is a >VERY large part of why I love meteorites so much. Meteorites have >allowed me a look into the universe and answer some very important >personal, spiritual, and scientific questions as to the origins of >Earth, the planets, and ourselves. Meteorites are keys to unlocking >our past, the formation of Earth, the solar system, stars, galaxies, >and ultimately the universe itself. > >The problem with the divine creation (anthropomorphic creator) >hypothesis is that it's an assumption of observance. In other words >the watchmaker paradox. The universe exists, how did it come to be? >Something must have "created" it. Right? Not necessarily. That my >friends is an absolute assumption. > >And the argument should stop right there, but it doesn't. Believers >will argue that something can't come from nothing and non-believers >will argue that everything came from what we perceive as nothing. (The >Big Bang) Science and non-believers go one step further and say "We >don't know what happened before the Big Bang." That is intellectual >honesty and good science. And this might be offensive to some, and I'm >sorry if offends, but speculating that an anthropomorphic deity >started it, is pure speculation, because no one knows what happened >before, in the beginning, and it creates the creator to explain the >unexplained formation of the observable. Why can't the unexplained >stop and start at "I don't know, lets find out." instead of "god did >it."? > >Evolution, Panspermia, Transpermia, Abiogenesis, Planetary Science, >Astrobiology, Astronomy, Anthropology, Archeology, they all help >explain the universe and world around us. > >Meteorites specifically are absolutely a vital clue to unlocking the >secrets of the universe because they (the asteroids and comets that >make them) not only are they the very material that formed our planet, >every single planet, planetesimal, asteroid, comet, meteoroid, and >spec of dust floating around our star was once part of another star >before, as are we. It's a cycle, a system, a circular system of >formation and destruction, somewhere in between life formed. > >Why create a creator to explain the unexplainable? Why not instead use >science to determine origins rather than speculate on a divine >supernatural beginning. Empirical evidenced fact outweighs speculative >assumption every time. We are in fact part of nature, not separate >from it. We need not transpose an anthropomorphic creatot to explain >something we don't yet know. > >Regardless of whether there is a divine creator, or not, no one can >prove it empirically either way. (yet) That's what science is for. If >there is, science will find out, if there is not, science will find >out. Either way, the truth will only be the truth when we prove it >with evidence, not speculative assumption of the observable. > >Regards, >Eric > > > > > >Quoting Richard Montgomery <rickm...@earthlink.net>: > >> Hi Michael and List (a different Richard here!) >> >> Contrary to the often mis-conception that 'religion' and 'God' are >> interchangeable...and considering the 'dangerous' ground upon which a >> discussion of this sort may be inappropriate for the meteoritical >> discussion here....allow me this thought: >> >> A person of 'faith' may not rule out transpernmia in theory; it simply >> expands the pie. A 'religious' person tied tether-bound to a strick >> doctrine may reject such an 'outlandish' notion out-of-hand, as it >> disrupts the entire reality from which their foundation is built. >> >> In short, (in my small and insignificant yet human perspective), it >> should be rational to allow both transpermia and a perspective of God >> that trancends all current 'views' of even Christianity, allowing for >> all three to co-exist....just a thought.... >> >> Richard Montgomery >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Blood" <mlbl...@cox.net> >> To: "Dick Lipke" <richardli...@comcast.net>; "Meteorite List" >> <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> >> Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2012 5:02 PM >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorites Reveal Another Way to Make >> Life's Components >> >> >>> Hi Richard, >>> >>> As an Anthropologist I can assure you all religions have NOT >>> Viewed God as male - some were female and some were non-gender >>> Specific "spirit." >>> >>> Garry, I agree with you - interesting topic, but I fear a good many >>> On the list would see it as non-meteorite related in spite of the fact >>> That transpermia (via meteorites) compels such a discussion about why >>> People "of faith" would reject transpermia out of hand. They damned >>> Near tortured Galileo to death for saying the world was not the center >>> Of the universe (and he lived the remainder of his life under house arrest). >>> >>> Religious persecution of scientific recognition of inconvenient >>> facts has always been part of history and continues to this day - most >>> religions holding the view, "the way we see things IS the way things are" >>> while others overtly state that view AND feel the DUTY to kill anyone >>> when sees things differently - hence 9/11. >>> >>> Weird, weird, weird & weirder. >>> >>> Michael >>> >>> >>> On 3/11/12 2:23 PM, "Dick Lipke" <richardli...@comcast.net> wrote: >>> >>>> Micheal, >>>> That is an excellent point that has always baffled me and I could never >>>> understand the thinking >>>> of any religion in this world. All the different Gods worshiped world wide >>>> have always been considered a male. >>>> Which brings up the problem, "Which came first, the chicken or the egg." >>>> I think all these religions could be easier to swallow if their God was a >>>> female. >>>> That would answer the question, she "God" was a female carrying >>>> the first egg >>>> that resulted >>>> in the birth of the universe. >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> Richard Lipke >>>> >>>> >>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>> A major element in the problem with most of those calling >>>>> Themselves Christians these days is that they >>>>> See God as an anthropomorphic individual. This makes it >>>>> Difficult to see the "glory" or creation in anything other >>>>> Than comic book images. >>>>> >>>>> They actually envision God as a big (male) human who >>>>> Literally, with His hands, shaped Adam out of mud..... >>>>> They cannot even see what a nearly perfect allegory that is >>>>> For evolution arising from a primeval "soup." >>>>> >>>>> Evidence of transpermia is growing - but don't confuse >>>>> Them with facts. >>>>> >>>>> Odd >>>>> Michael >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> On 3/10/12 5:58 AM, "Dick Lipke" <richardli...@comcast.net> wrote: >>>>> >>>>>> Years ago I got a lot of questionable looks concerning my sanity >>>>>> when I >>>>>> brought up >>>>>> the idea of meteorites being "the Johny Appleseed of of life on >>>>>> Earth" to >>>>>> members of my astronomy club. >>>>>> Needless to say it resulted in many,many comments of out rage. >>>>>> They reminded me of how it must have felt to be among the first >>>>>> to refute the idea that Earth was the center of the Universe. >>>>>> Lucky for me my kind of thinking came in 20th century, back then >>>>>> they still >>>>>> burnt >>>>>> people at the stake for being possessed by satin. >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> Richard Lipke >>>>>> >>>>>> >>>>>> ----- Original Message ----- >>>>>>> Meteorites Reveal Another Way to Make Life's Components >>>>>>> ScienceDaily, March 9, 2012, >>>>>>> http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/03/120309104845.htm >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Meteorites Reveal Another Way to Make Life's Components >>>>>>> Klaus Schmidt, March 10, 2012 >>>>>>> http://spacefellowship.com/news/art27926/meteorites-reveal-another-way-to-m >>>>>>> ak >>>>>>> e-life-s-components.html >>>>>>> >>>>>>> The paper is: >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Burton, A. S., J. E. Elsila, M. P. Callahan, M. G. Martin, D. P. >>>>>>> Glavin, N. M. Johnson, and J. P. Dworkin. A propensity >>>>>>> for n-w-amino acids in thermally altered Antarctic >>>>>>> meteorites. Meteoritics & Planetary Science. Article >>>>>>> first published online: 8 March 2012 >>>>>>> >>> http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1945-5100.2012.01341.x/abstrac>>>> >>> t >>>>>>> >>>>>>> best wishes, >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Paul H. >>>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>>> >>>>>>> Visit the Archives at >>>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >>>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>>>> ______________________________________________ >>>>>> >>>>>> Visit the Archives at >>>>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >>>>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>>>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>>>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>>> ______________________________________________ >>>> >>>> Visit the Archives at >>>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >>>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >>> >>> ______________________________________________ >>> >>> Visit the Archives at >>> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >>> Meteorite-list mailing list >>> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >>> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >>> >> >> ______________________________________________ >> >> Visit the Archives at >> http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list > > >______________________________________________ > >Visit the Archives at >http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html >Meteorite-list mailing list >Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ Visit the Archives at http://www.meteoritecentral.com/mailing-list-archives.html Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list