As a growing amateur (and successful hunter)... (and amateur's make the hobby grow, and the growing hobby makes the dealers and collectors grow, and dealers and collectors growing make the science grow); I do use the words: ecrucite, diogenite, howardite, and have been trained since my first day learning meteorites to become familiar with these terms and mental pictures of what they relate to in the meteorite world. The pictures in the Rocks From Space books, and any entry level publication (Bob Haag's catalogue's, old and new) all have these "archaic" terms next to the very full color pictures of our glorious meteorites.
These terms may be old school, and out dated terms but please remember that if you give a test to 90 percent of the world of meteorite collectors, these are commonly used terms that are very familiar to the vast majority of us; the common meteorite person. At any given large February rock and mineral show where the gods and the common man among us congregate, these are yet very familiar terms, these archaic: ecrucite, diogenite, howardite... Science may have progressed too far.
New bath water is fine, let's not loose the baby that got us here.
Before we go to changing too much, maybe the learning tools, ie, the books that we learn from, need to be all upgraded before we start renaming everything. I have yet to read my first Meteoritical Bulletin and yet I have a new meteorite under classification that will be there in a year. Please don't alienate the growing amateur, or the average collector.
Lost in space,
Dave Freeman
IMCA # 3864
As a post note, Bozoites are those of our generation that grew up watching WGN TV Chicago every day at 5:30 pm and thus that name is already taken.
Jeff Grossman wrote:
At 12:57 PM 6/18/2003, Adam Hupe wrote:
Dear List,
A lot of good suggestions for naming this new group are rolling in and we
are pleased with the turn-out. We thought the NomCom had something to do
with naming of meteorite groups because many submitted description titles
have been changed after NomCom voting when new meteorites were submitted.
One example is NWA 1459 which was submitted as an "Olivine Diogenite" and
was published as "Diogenite, olivine-rich"...
Adam and Greg Hupe The Hupe Collection IMCA 2185
The Meteoritical Bulletin is an edited publication. Basically, it is up to the Editor, acting on advice from the NomCom and the person describing the meteorite, to use whatever classification terms she sees fit. In fact, if somebody names these meteorites Bozoites, the Editor will still call them by the term she thinks most appropriate. I will certainly advise her to avoid new trivial terms unless they come into common usage.
I want to emphasize: the names eucrite, diogenite, and howardite are 19th Century coinages. They are remnants of the old Rose-Tschermak-Brezina classification system, most of which is long-dead. They only survive because ancient traditions die hard, and until the 1970's there were very few achondrites available for systematic classification. It is not reasonable to coin new 19th-C style names for things. Science has progressed too far.
Adam Hupe also wrote:
>If these five were from Earth they would be called "Harzburgitic Peridotites" >but you cannot use terrestrial terms to name meteorite types.
This is wrong. New types of martian meteorites are now classified as, e.g., ALH 84001: "martian orthopyroxenite." Trivial names have also not been coined for lunar meteorites: they are classified as "lunar basalt," "lunar anorthosite," etc. The names of HED-clan achondrites should follow suit. Once we're sure they're from Vesta, they should be called "Vesta peridotite" or some such. For now, terms like "olivine diogenite" or, a better alternative, "HED-clan peridotite" serve to identify both the mineralogy and parent body.
jeff
----- Original Message ----- From: "Jeff Grossman" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Wednesday, June 18, 2003 5:23 AM Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Need help naming new group
> New groups names are not a NomCom issue, although there are people who
> think it should be. Group names come into being through consensus. Many
> group names have died at birth, never being adopted by anybody other that
> the person who wrote the initial publication (e.g., F chondrites, CA
> chondrites). Others have caught on and become widely accepted (recently,
> R, CH, CK, CR chondrites). Still others remain on the fence (e.g., CB
> chondrites versus bencubbinites or just bencubbin-like meteorites). It
> takes time.
>
> My personal opinion is that "olivine diogenite" is a perfectly fine
> term. Although it preserves the antiquated, nondescriptive, trivial term
> "diogenite," everybody in meteoritics now knows what a diogenite is, and
> that it comes from the HED parent body, most likely Vesta. What we don't
> need now, in this age where we actually know where meteorites come from,
is
> more trivial terms. I strongly doubt that any publication that proposes
> calling them something else would ever catch on.
>
> jeff
>
>
> At 10:55 PM 6/17/2003, Adam Hupe wrote:
> >Dear List Members,
> >
> >It is our pleasure to announce NWA 1877, (provisional) the second
so-called
> >"Olivine Diogenite" in private hands. This makes number five including
the
> >three Antarctic finds. The significance of it being number five is that
it
> >now qualifies to be promoted to main group status if approved by the
> >Nomenclature Committee. Scientists who are working on it agree that this
> >ultra-rare class is suited in every way for a new full-blown group and
are
> >willing to propose this new group. Since O-Isotopes place this from the
> >same parent body as the HED group, naming this new group would be a
> >history-making event. A main group has never been added to the HED
> >assemblage, only subgroups.
> >
> >This is not paired with NWA 1459, which was found in Iriqui and only
weighed
> >49 grams. Weighing in at 312 grams, NWA 1877, (provisional) is the most
> >olivine-rich yet found with ~50% of this mineral. The scientists who are
> >working on it suggested coming up with a new name for this group since
> >Diogenite, by definition, does not accurately describe this type of
> >meteorite. The name "Olivine Diogenite" was coined by scientists working
on
> >the Antarctic finds for lack of a better term at the time. If these
five
> >were from Earth they would be called "Harzburgitic Peridotites" but you
> >cannot use terrestrial terms to name meteorite types. This is where the
> >List may be able to help. Scientists suggested that the meteoritic
> >community, meaning the List, come up with a name for this group.
> >
> >We do not know what to call this proposed new group since none of them
are
> >from witnessed falls. It was suggested that it be named in honor of
some
> >famous pioneer in the field of meteoritics or some closely related
> >discipline. We are open to suggestions and know that List members can be
> >very creative. Who knows? you may be able to become a part of history by
> >coming up with a suitable name.
> >
> >In case you have not guessed this will be the weekly rare material
> >announcement but with some added flare because it is something anyone
could
> >get involved in if they wished. If you come up with a suitable name we
> >will send you a 1-gram plus specimen free of charge.
> >
> >Wishing everybody the very best,
> >
> >Adam and Greg Hupe
> >The Hupe Collection
> >IMCA 2185
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >______________________________________________
> >Meteorite-list mailing list
> >[EMAIL PROTECTED]
> >http://www.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
>
> Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman
> Chair, Meteorite Nomenclature Committee (Meteoritical Society)
> US Geological Survey
> 954 National Center
> Reston, VA 20192, USA
> Phone: (703) 648-6184 fax: (703) 648-6383
>
>
>
> ______________________________________________
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Dr. Jeffrey N. Grossman Chair, Meteorite Nomenclature Committee (Meteoritical Society) US Geological Survey 954 National Center Reston, VA 20192, USA Phone: (703) 648-6184 fax: (703) 648-6383
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