From: "S. Ray DeRusse" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: McomeMeteorite Meteorite <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>, [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] BCC "Meteorites" [was Milestones] PLEASE READ
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 08:30:25 -0600
Matteo;
We think your implying that we fabricated any email from Dirk Ross is preposterous and absurd. We have no reason to fabricate analytical data, emails or anything from anyone for that matter. I suppose you think we fabricated the email below from Dr. Oliver Manuel to Bill Cutler in which he agrees with us and welcomes some measure of controls on rogue scientists? Is that what you think? We realized the level of absurdity from you and many others when you endlessly debated whether a meteorite fall is hot to the touch back in 2002. You guys endlessly debated this issue and some trained scientists even weighed in on the issue but only served to cloud it. Since ya'll never settled it let me tell you the heat generated by a meteorite fall is proportional to the metal content. That is to say the higher the metal content the hotter to the touch.....duh. That means that stony meteorites will only be warm to the touch whereas iron-nickel meteorites will be hot. Good luck and stop being so absurd and preposterous.
From Dr. Oliver Manuel;
Thanks, Bill, for the message.
I wish NASA's new policy might correct the problem. Science rests on one of the oldest spiritual truths, e.g. from the Upanishads, "Truth is victorious, never untruth." It appears NASA officials mistakenly believed for decades that good PR (public relations) is more important than truth. NASA held the purse strings and misconduct from NASA spread into peripheral organizations.
For example, how much NASA money, how many pages of MAPS and GCA, and how many hours of Lunar Science Conference time has been devoted to questionable but flashy discoveries like AN ALPHABET OF NEONS (Ne-A, Ne-B, Ne-C, Ne-D, Ne-E, etc.), SUPER-HEAVY ELEMENTS, INTERSTELLAR DIAMONDS, STAR DUST, etc. while more mundane explanations (MASS FRACTIONATION, LOCAL ELEMENT SYNTHESIS, etc.) were ignored and/or excluded from publication?
What is the result?
1. NASA - the world's premier space agency - failed to appreciate that samples from the Apollo mission clearly revealed severe mass separation in the Sun. There is little doubt about this conclusion. See "Composition of the Solar Interior: Information from Isotope Ratios"
http://www.umr.edu/~om/abstracts2002/soho-gong2002.pdf http://www.umr.edu/~om/abstracts2002/soho-gong2002.ps
2. NASA - the world's premier space agency - failed to appreciate that the Galileo probe into the atmosphere of Jupiter confirmed that material there is unlike that in the Sun. See Ken Windler's report on "strange" xenon isotopes in Jupiter.
http://www.umr.edu/~om/abstracts2001/windleranalysis.pdf
In 1983 we noted that the Galileo mission to Jupiter would find "strange" xenon there, if we were correct in concluding that the Sun is iron-rich from the Apollo mission to the Moon ["Solar abundance of the elements", Meteoritics 18, 209-222].
NASA's engineering has been great, but its science has been a dismal failure. Unfortunately, scientific journals share some of the blame.
With kind regards, Oliver K. Manuel
McomeMeteorite Meteorite wrote:
I doubt many Dirk Ross write this....
From: "S. Ray DeRusse" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
CC: [EMAIL PROTECTED]
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] BCC "Meteorites" [was Milestones] PLEASE READ
Date: Wed, 24 Nov 2004 06:20:16 -0600
Greetings List;
I would like respond to Mr. Notkin. Mr. Notkin you prove that if you wnat to get your facts straight you have to go to the source. Yes we did file a lawsuit sometime back against numerous individuals when we discovered they interfering with some others we were working with on the meteorite project. Its a well known fact that certain individuals have been operating against us.
You obviously were lied to by your friend we sued. WE filed a motion to dismiss the lawsuit after two of the defendants agreed to complete their contracts with us. WE did it, no Judge dismissed anything. We filed a motion to dismiss without prejudice that means we can go back at anytime. Do you understand that? We instructed the Assistant Attorney General to draft it up, we signed it and filed it once two of the defendants came forward to spill the beans. We that means us Mr. Notkin.
Now as far the samples, and being told nicely about anything. First of all if the samples were not authentic why would UT try to steal the ones that were in left in the lab with them? It was not until we blew the whistle on them that this controversy began to get out of hand. If you think that all scientists are honest and do not lie, cheat, and steal, having same, similar or different motives, Mr. Notkin I have news for you, you too are in living world that does not exist. I would hope that you know the difference between a typographical error and an actual misspelling, but for some people, thinking on their own is a lot of work. Good luck Mr. Notkin and I really mean that.
Here's an entirely differenct viewpoint from Dirk Ross
Dear Mr. DeRusse, I have been doing research since 1980. But, my last research was last year at Yamaguchi University in Japan. I have read most of your writings on the internet. You certainly are an educated person. I can understand your wish for students and scientists to think "outside" of the box. I agree with you on this point. I always ask and demand my students to think independently so that science can advance what is known. I apologize for my initial judgement about you before knowing more about the whole story. Keep up your search for fact. About truth, I leave that for God. Sincerely, Dirk Ross...Tokyo __________________________________ Do you Yahoo!? The all-new My Yahoo! - Get yours free! http://my.yahoo.com
S. Ray DeRusse and Bill Cutler www.bccmeteorites.com
Notkin wrote:
<x-rich><fixed>Jonathan posted:
I'm back on the list. What is BCC meteorites about? I have heard a lot about it and read their site but I still don't understand. Odd.
Dear Jonathan and Fellow Listees:
Jonathan, yes you are absolutely right. It is very "odd" and nobody else understands their site either because their site is nonsense.
I would like all my fellow List members to be made aware of something important: These BCC "Meteorites" characters filed an actual lawsuit against a number of prominent, respected and very well-liked senior meteoriticists here in the U.S (one of whom is a personal friend of mine). The suit was -- of course -- thrown out by the judge for being utterly frivolous. It's just too bad these clowns weren't heavily fined for wasting court time.
BCC "Meteorites" seems to believe that there's some kind of high-level conspiracy/cover-up going on between NASA and major meteoritical institutions -- all because BCC "Meteorites" have been told (nicely and repeatedly) that the junk items they dig out of their bog, or whatever, in Texas are not actually fossilized alien brains, UFO warp core spare parts, Lunar meteorites, Dick Tracy wrist watch radios, etc., but just plain old dull terrestrial rocks. I think we all enjoy a good eccentric, and the whole thing would have been somewhat amusing in a "Benny Hill" sort of way if these guys hadn't been really nasty to some really nice people during their imaginary scientific journey.
We have our squabbles on the List from time to time, but we are all united in our interest in the SCIENCE of meteoritics. The technobabble/gobbledygook pseudo-science offered up on the BCC "Meteorites" website -- and written, I might add, in appalling elementary school English so laden with spelling errors and grammatical mistakes that you couldn't follow their argument even if it *were* sound -- should not be allowed promotion here on the Meteorite List. Novice collectors, still learning about meteorites, might be hoodwinked into believing some of the fatuous claims that are made on the BCC website.
So, I strongly suggest that we -- as a community -- block the email addresses of these guys DeRusse and Cutler immediately and permanently. They just want attention, and the best way to eradicate this kind of fake science rubbish is to ignore the perpetrators entirely. They'll likely get bored and wander off to some UFO conspiracy theory/Creationist mailing list of which -- unfortunately -- there are probably several. A request from a few of you to List Moderator Art Jones ( [EMAIL PROTECTED] ) to have them removed from the List wouldn't hurt either.
Oh, and BTW, if you look at the first photo on their website, the guy with the white gloves looks like "Dr. No." : )
Not at all respectfully,
Geoff Notkin
Science writer interested in actual science and real meteorites</fixed></x-rich>
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