Hi, Svend, Doug, List
Thanks for the translation, Svend. I was Googling
away looking for a translation when yours arrived in my
mailbox! (For good translations of many classical
texts, try the Classics Dept at MIT website, an odd
spot, but lots of good stuff.)
While I really do think we lost something when
education stopped teaching the classics and spared us
all the pain of "amo, amas..." and learning all those
annoying greek letters, there is a limit to the wisdom
to be found in the ancients, somewhere in the vicinity
of the wall of irrevocable cultural difference.
Here's one
If I read it alright, the passage:
" Let no girl or boy within your worshipful
friend's marble threshold inflame your heart, lest
the owner of the pretty boy or dear girl make you
happy with a present so trifling or torment you if
disobliging."
means:
" Don't get the 'hots' for your good buddies'
pretty boy or girl household slaves and get all
wrapped up in the thought of taking them back
home with you to serve as sex slaves for you,
because then your friends would have undue
influence over you, either to make you way too
happy with them or be really pissed off with them
if they turn you down flat."
Wow! That's good advice, and so useful in
everyday life today... Yup, I agree 100%. I
never ask my friends for child sex slaves to take
home and abuse! I just don't do it anymore...
So up to date.
Doug, I think your advice is better than old
Horace's! Why don't you write a book of letters?
Or is that what you're doing, on the List?
Once, back in the Dawn Ages, in a very dull
lull in a 2nd year Greek class, I volunteered the idea
that, for educational purposes, we should just DUMP
the Greek alphabet; do the grammar, dictionaries, and
texts in standardized roman characters; we would all
learn the language at a rate 5 to 10 times faster, become
fluent and be thinking in it in 2-3 years, be reading up a
Thudycidian storm, THEN introduce the whacky
characters, which would be easy to learn IF we
already knew the language. I really thought that poor
old guy (much younger than I am now) that taught the
class was going to have a stroke! I got a memorable
tongue-lashing that lasted for... 10, 15 minutes? I
certainly remember it. I don't remember the Greek, but
I remember that very well.
Not everything ancient is dated or out-of-date. Some
Persian prisoners, after the Battle of Marathon, who figured
they weren't going to be prisoners long because their vast
army would soon crush these silly Greeks soon, said to the
Greeks, "We don't get it. Why are you putting up this crazy
resistance. It makes no sense, and we don't understand what
you're fighting for. All men are subject to other stronger men;
what difference does it make whether they're Persian or
whatever?"
And the Greek guards just looked at them like, you
poor dumb SOB's. Finally, one of the Greeks said, "We can't
explain it to you. You wouldn't understand because you've been
slaves all your lives, but if you'd ever been free for even one
day, you would fight to the death to stay that way, just like
we do."
Over 2500+ years, and not dated in the least...
Sterling K. Webb
--------------------------------------------------
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 10:07 AM
Subject: AW: Re: [meteorite-list] Fraudulent Trade? latin translated
A little more respect for the clear beauty of the
Ablativus Absolutus! And as far as 'dead languages'
are concerned: there will be a time when all our
current languages will be dead ...
However, here is a little translation of Dougs quotation
from the 1st book of letters by Q. Horatius Flaccus:
Let me continue my advice, if you need advice at all,
- think often of what you say, and of whom,
and to whom you say it. Avoid a questioner, for he
is also a tattler. Open ears will not always keep secrets
loyally, and the word once let slip flies beyond
recall. Let no girl or boy within your worshipful
friend's marble threshold inflame your heart, lest
the owner of the pretty boy or dear girl make you
happy with a present so trifling or torment you if
disobliging. What sort of a person you introduce,
consider again and again, lest by and by the
other's failings strike you with shame. At times
we err and present someone unworthy: therefore, if
taken in, forbear to defend him whose own fault
drags him down, in order that, if charges assail
one you know thoroughly, you may watch over and
protect the man who relies on your championship.
For when he is nibbled at with Theon's tooth of
slander, don't you feel that a little later the
peril will pass to yourself?
'Tis your own safety
that's at stake, when your neighbour's wall is in
flames, and fires neglected are wont to gather
strength.
Best regards
Svend
www.niger-meteorite-recon.de
So much for the "dead" language.........GEEZ.......I can see why its now
dead......! Maybe we should get the Pope to translate it!
Kirk..........
----- Original Message -----
From: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>
To: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Sent: Wednesday, June 28, 2006 6:44 AM
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Fraudulent Trade?
Michael B. wrote:
While it appears there may be significant other issues in this case,
it is none of my business - nor anyone else's on the list,
Michael,
The central point is that the emotions and incredible sums of money and
meteorite transaction reputation involved here beg for an orderly
negotiation in
good faith by both parties' initiative - I think all unsolicited commenters
actually agree!! That's where the list could realistically provide
positive
inspiration to both parties.
It seems to be getting harder and harder to draw the line between the
necessities and the excedents. I agree with you on many points and am sad
to see
how the positive ideas you integrated in your post are overlooked due to
some
of your other revolutionary suggestions which many don't necessarily share
but certainly some appreciate. While our conclusions may be different, I
think
you have a bullseye when you suggest that multiple viewpoints exist
without
your commenting on justification or lack of it, and that encouraging
dialog
is essential to break this impasse. I get the vibe that you suggest that
thirst for victory might be sweet by unchecked public flogging, but point
out we
are hopefully less savage in this age and I would add need the discipline
to
be respectful of our adversaries under all circumstances if we wish to
obtain clean equity.
Since I support your ideas thus discussed, the variations we then have are
only academic. So as not to detract, I got to thinking of these verses,
which
perhaps some cultured linguist could help me through. Somehow they were
resurrected to life from the ashes falling out of my inbox after another
deletathon. I hope you at least agree with it to a point as applied.
Damn
Horacio
who said it before - I certainly could not have said it better by any
means:
Qualem commendes, etiam atque etiam aspice, ne mox
incutiant aliena tibi peccata pudorem.
Fallimur et quondam non dignum tradimus; ergo
quem sua culpa premet, deceptus omitte tueri,
ut penitus notum, si temptent crimina, serues
tuterisque tuo fidentem praesidio; qui
dente Theonino cum circumroditur, ecquid
ad te post paulo uentura pericula sentis?
¡¡ NAM TUA RES AGITUR, PARIES CUM PROXIMUS ARDET,
ET NEGLECTA SOLENT INCENDIA SUMERE UIRES !!
Apologies for the plagerized Latin, but I would feel foolish attempting a
translation failing to do justice to these maxims. I thought you might
appreciate it Michael as I picture Horacio melodically relating this
stanza
to both
you and me in an olive garden where both participants boldly picked there
own
branches. I beg your pardon if I am mistaken or wrong to try to express
my
sometimes eccentric thoughts, or if I am too long on the soapbox, or
putting
you to sleep. This time they concern a situation that could destroy most
meteorite aficionados' collecting careers and scare many a collector into
remission. The wall next door is aflame.
Saludos, Doug
P.S. I am agreeing less and less with these public floggings for the
simple
reason that the resolutions are rarely publicized. A responsible feedback
mechanism should also include what finally happened IMO when dealing with
the
reputation of a fellow aficionado.
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