Doug, It doesn't take a google cowboy, just a little common sense, to understand the brutal nature of our species. No nation or people is exempt. I've also heard that we have an enormous capacity for good.
Bill > -----Original Message----- > From: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Sent: Sat, 25 Nov 2006 21:56:04 -0500 > To: [EMAIL PROTECTED] > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite novels -gifts II > > Sterling wrote: > "1739-1740 War of Jenkins' Ear" > "And [the USA's] certainly never managed to have a war as magnificently > named as "The War of Jenkins' Ear"! Now, that's how to name a war! Clear, > concise, and everybody knows exactly what it's all about." > > Hey Sterling, > > Hah! remember studies in Western Civ - between Physics and philosophy > class > :-) -, really, the USA has darn well so managed to have a war equally > magnificient in name as the "War of Jenkin's Ear". > > It was called "The War of Jenkin's Ear"; Same Jenkins - and it wasn't > Jenkin's other ear. Don't forget that Jenkin's ear was supposedly > severed > in the Americas, and he was as English as George Washington at the time. > So > I'd Argue that not only did the Americans participate in that war - they > also started it. Not to mention the USA started the funiest named war of > all: The "Quasi-War" as thanks to the French right after the French > supported the American Independence effort. > > That particular Jenkin's Ear war in the 1740's is actually the same war > that > was contracted by the European continent and spread to Bohemia and > resulted > in the French tossing the Elbogen Iron meteorite down the to the bottom > of > the Bohemian well where it rusted for 40 years. It was a small world > back > then, too. In the USA, in the great American State of Georgia, the > military > general who founded Georgia wasted no time to marshal his proud Savannah > compatriots and adventurous Charlestonians out of South Carolina to > pillage > everything from Jacksonville, Florida to St. Augustine, and that was only > openers. > > Oh the United States has had oogles more practically nameless wars than > you > give it credit for in those years. They don't Google easily out of a > database like your nice European ones, but they were bloodier if Indians > are > men considered equal in the eyes of the Creator. You've got to consider > that in Europe all those wars were spread among 20-30 countries. How > many > Indian real nations do you think the singular USA trounced in a religious > ferver to achieve its destiny? The USA is a nation that was perpetually > at > war on its own and its extended frontiers. There are more Indian wars > alone, than Indian nations that yielded in defeat against the cleansing > of > the continent from Atlantic to Pacific. Take Florida, which heaped war > upon > wars, genocide and forced relocation. Or maybe Missouri - if the Indians > had caught on quicker, you might be living in a teepee today, or at least > your neighbor :-) > > As for the lack of colorful names of wars in the USA even without > considering who started the War of Jenkin's Ear, does Europe have a > "Battle > of Little Bighorn", which is a battle the war easily can assume for the > name, and really was the fight leading to the demise of a race of people? > If that isn't enough, how about the Gipper's "Star Wars", who has one of > those programs besides George Lucas? And I am convinced that the US > participated as a silent partner in the infamous "Football War," as > well... > > Best wishes, Doug > (no slights to any nation, no offense; we are who we are and I can live > with > that just fine, until someone else tosses a spectacular iron in a well to > fester. Guess the Evian was too depleted in minerals for their taste) > > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Sterling K. Webb" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: "Martin Altmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; "'MexicoDoug'" > <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> > Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 8:34 PM > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite novels -gifts II > > >> Martin Altmann said: >> >>> There were always wars, wars, wars... >>> funny enough, people now ranting about >>> the European Union always forget... >> >> 1337-1453 Hundred Years' War >> 1455-1485 Wars of the Roses >> 1496-1499 Russo-Swedish War of 1496-1499 >> 1522-1559 Habsburg-Valois Wars >> 1554-1557 Russo-Swedish War of 1554-1557 >> 1558-1583 Livonian War >> 1568-1648 Eighty Years' War >> 1590-1595 Russo-Swedish War of 1590-1595 >> 1594-1603 Nine Years' War (Ireland) >> 1610-1617 Ingrian War >> 1618-1648 Thirty Years' War >> 1641-1649 Wars of Castro >> 1641-1653 Irish Confederate Wars >> 1642-1651 English Civil War >> 1644-1650 Scottish Civil War >> 1656-1658 Russo-Swedish War of 1656-1658 >> 1667-1668 War of Devolution >> 1667-1683 Great Turkish War >> 1688-1691 Williamite War in Ireland >> 1700-1721 Great Northern War >> 1701-1713 War of the Spanish Succession >> 1733-1738 War of the Polish Succession >> 1739-1740 War of Jenkins' Ear >> 1740-1748 War of the Austrian Succession >> 1741-1743 Russo-Swedish War of 1741-1743 >> 1756-1763 Seven Years' War >> 1788-1790 Russo-Swedish War of 1788-1790 >> 1789-1799 French Revolution >> 1798 Irish Rebellion of 1798 >> 1792-1815 Napoleonic Wars >> 1808-1809 Finnish War >> 1848-1866 Italian Independence wars >> 1848-1849 First Italian Independence War >> 1859 Second Italian Independence War >> 1866 Third Italian Independence War >> 1854-1856 Crimean War >> 1866-1866 Austro-Prussian War >> 1870-1871 Franco-Prussian War >> 1877-1878 Russo-Turkish War >> 1893-1896 Cod War of 1893 >> 1897 First Greco-Turkish War >> 1912-1913 Balkan Wars >> 1914-1918 World War I >> 1916 Easter Rising >> 1917-1920 Estonian Liberation War >> 1918-1919 Czechoslovakia-Hungary War >> 1918 Finnish Civil War >> 1918-1920 Russian Civil War >> 1919-1921 Irish War of Independence >> 1922-1923 Irish Civil War >> 1936-1939 Spanish Civil War >> 1939-1940 Winter War >> 1939-1945 World War II >> 1958 First Cod War >> 1972-1973 Second Cod War >> 1974 Turkish Invasion of Cyprus >> 1975-1976 Third Cod War >> 1994-1996 First Chechen War >> 1991 War in Slovenia >> 1991-1995 Croatian War of Independence >> 1992-1995 War in Bosnia and Herzegovina >> 1996-1999 Kosovo War >> 1999-present Second Chechen War >> 2001 Conflict in Macedonia >> 2001 Conflict in Southern Serbia >> >> Only 63 wars in 500 years, or one every 7.94 >> years. Eleven wars in 33 years (1912-1945) is >> probably a world record. Doesn't count wars >> that Europeans participated in that didn't take >> place IN Europe (otherwise the list would be >> 120, 150, or 200 wars long). >> >> I feel totally abashed. The USA has only had >> 14 or 15 wars in 225 years, if you count our >> War for Independency, John Adams' undeclared >> naval war on France in 1798, two "wars" with >> Barbary pirates, the Whiskey Rebellion (whiskey >> lost, BTW), and all the wars we participated in >> that were outside the United States. We've never >> managed to have a war 100 years long or even >> 30 years long (although we seem to be trying to >> do that in Iraq). And we've certainly never managed >> to have a war as magnificently named as "The >> War of Jenkins' Ear"! Now, that's how to name >> a war! Clear, concise, and everybody knows >> exactly what it's all about. >> >> >> Sterling K. Webb >> ------------------------------------------------------------------------ >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Martin Altmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "'MexicoDoug'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; >> <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> >> Sent: Saturday, November 25, 2006 1:27 PM >> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite novels -gifts II >> >> >> Hi Doug, >> >> so flagrant is my commercialism not. >> Yes, I do have a slice of Elbogen left for sale, but I guess, if you'd >> ask >> Dieter Heinlein, you would pay 10$ less per gram. >> >> For the spelling of uncle Alois I always find two variants: >> >> "Widmanstätten" >> (with a single "n" and the German letter for the diphthong, the "a" with >> the >> 2 dots above) or >> >> "Beck-Widmannstetter". >> Which one was more in use? I don't know. We have to ask the list-members >> from Austria to look in the specific biographical lexika. >> >> There still exists several descendants today, they spell themselves >> "Beckh-Widmannstetter". >> >> Ehm, Doug, the story with the font is different. >> It's the most famous and incredible meteorite legend in history. >> >> Be prepared! >> >> There was a prophecy about the Burggraf-Klumpen. >> It said, whenever it will be let down into the font of Loket castle, >> it will come up again. >> >> Well, so once it was let down in the font, and after a while, they tore >> him >> out gain. >> >> Spooky, isn't it Doug? >> >> I forgot where I read that story and also why the chunk was hidden at >> which >> opportunity. >> Whether it was in the Napoleonic wars, or whether Wallenstein wanted to >> found bullets out of it, whether some Hussites were hiding it... >> >> There were always wars, wars, wars...funny enough, people now ranting >> about >> the European Union always forget, in what for a privileged situation >> they're >> living. 60 years without greater wars. >> >> Buckleboo! >> Martin >> >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- >> Von: [EMAIL PROTECTED] >> [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] Im Auftrag von >> MexicoDoug >> Gesendet: Freitag, 24. November 2006 22:32 >> An: Martin Altmann >> Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite novels -gifts II >> >> OK, Martin, Nice post, I'm convinced that, if I can ever possess a >> specimen >> of Elbogen, I won't have any choice than to acquire it from one of >> Chladni's >> >> authentic airs.:-) >> >> You mentioned our Widmannstaetten: Alois Beck Edler von >> Widmannstetter.... >> >> I was very curious about the spelling you used, an alternate from that >> which >> >> we are accustomed...Can you tell us Teutonically challenged volks a >> little >> about the reason for this difference? >> >> Ahhh, and those kind and ever-so-considerate Frenchmen. Why do you >> suppose >> they would have mocked so cruelly their Bohemian hosts by spitefully >> lifting >> >> up the unliftable Elbogen iron meteorite and tossing it into a well to >> languish there for decades? Was it simply with the arrogance to say, >> "Non, >> nous'sommes non so greedyyyy, looooouky, devons-nous procéder à toss >> your >> rrrevered Cloompain to zz bottom of z pit where he can hhhrrust >> avay....oui >> oui , ou la laaaa, Kaput et Voilà La Boheme!! " No wonder the >> Austrians >> taught those savage beastly French a lesson in humility and kicked them >> out >> on their derrières shortly afterward... for which the French rewarded >> them >> later by overrunning Munich. Well being the Francophile I am, and still >> astonished this could happen, I must say in their defense that the >> French >> Secret Order of the Guardians of Ensisheim has brought back great honor >> and >> civility upon their countrymen after that fateful moment of the >> aggression >> of Elbogen... >> >> Best wishes, >> Doug >> >> PS nice post Matthias, too! >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Martin Altmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "'MexicoDoug'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; >> <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> >> Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 2:42 PM >> Subject: AW: [meteorite-list] Meteorite novels -gifts II >> >> >> Hola Doug, >> >> yah and the Grimm brothers weren't only collectors of tales, but titans >> of >> linguistics in writing the first modern comprehensive German dictionary. >> >> Btw. Widmannstetter used Elbogen for his direct printing of his famous >> Thopmson structures. >> >> Goethe celebrated his 75th birthday on the castle of Elbogen (Loket), >> I'm >> not sure, whether he saw the Klumpen still there. >> Anyway, when ha was young and visited the stone of Ensisheim in the >> church, >> he made pubertal fooling about the people being so superstitious. >> >> Again, if once Vassiliev won't be so busy anymore, he has to found a >> meteorite fair on Loket castle. Nice counterpart to Ensisheim. >> >> Huh, I think I'm a capital sinner, I don't think, that I would be able >> to >> lift a Klumpen of more than 2 hundredweights... >> >> At least in the stories (there exist another version of the Burggraf >> metamorphosis) there are some slight meteoritical appeals: Thunder, >> Sounds, >> light, a pit... >> >> Buckleboo! >> Martin >> >> PS: There must be another story from that Klumpen, that it was hidden in >> the >> font of the castle - perhaps during the Napoleonic wars? >> >> >> >> -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- > >Von: MexicoDoug [mailto:[EMAIL PROTECTED] >> Gesendet: Freitag, 24. November 2006 20:08 >> An: Martin Altmann >> Cc: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Meteorite novels -gifts II >> >> Hi Martin, >> >> Thanks for the Buckleboo! It had become such a familiar part of the >> list, >> like an attention-getting favorite family member I started to miss >> it.... >> >> Now, whoever said German couldn't be a consonant language, hasn't read >> enough of "Klumpen klingenden Metall" and such. Those Grimm boys really >> provided a capsule of time, the scientists they were, so far ahead in >> educating toddling future meteoriticists. Thanks for the tale of the >> Bohemian iron Elbogen, the year assumed ca. 1400 witnessed fall that was >> recorded more as conversion of a greedy baron than a meteoritical tale. >> One >> >> wonders what Widmaenstatten was really out to discover when he stuck a >> slab >> of Elbogen in a Bunsen Burner to see what would happen. It must have >> been >> quite a BuckleBOO! for Widmaenstatten to see the steely Baron's jailbars >> and >> >> bones developing in the flame of that bewitching Klumpen of Metall. >> This >> relationship of meteorites to avariciousness and piousness illustrated >> here >> and in the Grimms' tale is pleasantly enlightening. >> >> One can see the original view of the of the Burggraf that Widmanstaetten >> saw >> >> courtesy of Jörn Koblitz here: >> http://www.metbase.de/printable/images/schreibers3_650.jpg >> >> And Chladni himself had an etched knife forged from Elbogen which is now >> at >> the Berlin Museum for any or all the motivated to see! >> http://euromin.w3sites.net/Nouveau_site/musees/berlin/Website-dt/Elbogen.htm >> l >> >> And another book to possibly add to the list: >> >> KNAGSTED by Gustev Wied >> Finally, here's another book you don't have to buy and can read online, >> Knagsted, by the Danish novelist Gustav Wied. That is, if you can at >> least >> read Rigsdansk... It was a satire published in 1902 and is based in part >> on >> the Elbogen legends... >> Excerpt: **"Samt (hvad der er forbavsende interessant): "Der verwünschte >> Burggraf" (en ond og haard Borgherre, der "in grauer Vorzeit" paa >> Foranledning af sin Umenneskelighed og en fattig Kones indtrængende Bøn >> til >> Gud blev forvandlet til) "ein ursprünglich 108 kg schwerer Meteorstein >> von >> der Gestalt eines Pferdekopfes. Gegenwürtig aber ist nur der kleinere >> etwa >> 22 kg schwere Theil desselben zu sehen, während sich der grÖssere im k. >> k. >> Hof-Naturaliencabinet in Wien befindet" ...** >> >> complete Danish text (Lars, please help!): >> http://www.bjornetjenesten.dk/teksterdk/knagsted.htm >> >> Marty, You've really earned your Austral-Germaniac heiritage today... >> Congratulations !!! >> >> Notice of my special request is kindly appreciated, >> Buckleboo too, >> Dougy >> >> >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: "Martin Altmann" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> >> To: "'MexicoDoug'" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; >> <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com> >> Sent: Friday, November 24, 2006 4:43 AM >> Subject: AW: [meteorite-list] Meteorite novels -gifts II >> >> >> Hi Doug, >> >> apropos Grimm bros. >> Did you know, that they mentioned a very famous meteorite in their >> collection of German folk tales (1816-1818)? >> >> "Auch zeigt man auf dem Rathause zu Elbogen noch jetzt die verbannten >> ruchlosen und goldgeizigen Burggrafen in einem Klumpen klingenden >> Metall. >> Der Sage nach soll niemand, der mit einer Todsünde befleckt ist, diesen >> Klumpen in die Höhe heben können." >> >> Uuuh my poor English, a Matteo version could read like this: >> >> "Also, in the townhall of Elbogen still today the banned heinous and >> gold-greedy burgraves are exhibited in a lump of clinking metal. >> Acording to legend nobody, who's imbrued by a capital sin, will be able >> to >> lift this lump." >> >> To translate the tale of the metamorphosis of the Burgrave into the >> meteorite, I leave to others (Peter, Bernd?): >> >> Der verwunschene Markgraf von Elbogen >> >> In grauer Vorzeit herrschte über Elbogen ein gar harter Mann, der >> Markgraf von Vohburg, der seine Untertanen und Diener, besonders die >> Bewohner der Robitsch - einer Elbogener Gegend - mit schwerem Frondienst >> bedrückte. Konnte einer den Willen des strengen Herren nicht nachkommen, >> wurde er sicherlich in den Turm geworfen und jämmerlich gezüchtigt. Über >> dem >> Haupttor der Burg ließ er eine Glocke befestigen, welche zur harten >> Arbeit >> rief. Zu Anfang ertönte sie wohl selten, später aber immer häufiger; >> denn >> der Markgraf wurde immer grausamer und habsüchtiger, das Mitleid schien >> gänzlich von ihm gewichen zu sein. >> Eines Sonntagmorgens stand er über dem Tor und beobachtete die in >> das nahe Gotteshaus wandelnden Scharen. Und es traf sich, dass eine arme >> Witwe ihm an diesem Tag eine Zahlung zu leisten hatte, sie hatte aber >> nichts, dass sie diese hätte entrichten können. Vielleicht, dachte sie, >> stimmt die heilige Sonntagsfeier den strengen Gebieter etwas zum >> Mitleid, >> und ging mit ihren unmündigen Kindern an der Hand, zu ihm hin und bat >> flehend um Nachsicht und Barmherzigkeit. "Habet Erbarmen mit mir! Der >> Ernährer der Familie ist gestorben und die Arbeit meiner Hände reicht >> eben >> nur kümmerlich hin, mich und diese Waisen zu erhalten!" >> Das Angesicht des Markgrafen verfinsterte sich bei der Rede wie >> der >> Himmel, der sich eben mit schweren Gewitterwolken umzog. Die arme Witwe >> bat >> nochmals und auch die Kleinen erhoben zu ihm ihre Hände. Doch das Herz >> des >> Herren blieb unbewegt und ließ sich durch den Jammer dieser Armen nicht >> erweichen. Zornesglut erfüllte sein Antlitz und seine Stimme donnerte >> auf >> sie herab: "Hinweg aus meinen Augen! Zahle was Du schuldig bist, sonnst >> lasse ich Dich in den Turm werfen!" Da raffte sich das Weib empor und >> rief, >> während das Donnern durch das Tal dröhnte, dem Fühllosen zu: "Weh` Dir, >> Vohburg! In dieser Stunde noch wirst Du in Stein verwandelt werden". >> Ein Schrei scholl durch die Lüfte - der Markgraf war verschwunden >> und dort, vor er stand, lag ein Klumpen - der verwunschene Markgraf von >> Elbogen. >> >> from >> Stanilav Burachovic: Sagen der Karlsbader Landschaft >> >> >> Martin, on your special request: Buckleboo! >> >> >> >> >> ------- >> STAR MONEY by the Bros. Altmann (jeje) >> A short fable summarized by our very favorite Germans, based on the >> original >> >> which was probably much older than the 1803 L'Aigle fall itself. Gives >> great insight to cultural fantasies of the significance of meteorites in >> the >> >> deep recesses of human thought. Interestingly, in an odd twist, it >> personifies what we all yearn in meteorite hunting in one form or >> another...READ THE ENGLISH translation free here, no need to buy the >> book, >> compiled by the namsake of Chladni's heirs: Story featured in Nation >> Geographic: >> >> http://www.nationalgeographic.com/grimm/star_money2.html >> >> Best wishes, Doug >> >> ______________________________________________ >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> ______________________________________________ >> Meteorite-list mailing list >> Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com >> http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list >> >> > > ______________________________________________ > Meteorite-list mailing list > Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com > http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ____________________________________________________________ GET FREE 5GB EMAIL - Check out spam free email with many cool features! 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