Hi Elton, this post is not in any way intended to be a attack, trolling, disparagement, of you or anyone else who feels the same way. And the meteorite working group, would perfer this conversation be OFF-LIST. We don't want this to be a meteorite list issue! Instead of discouraging other people, which you have obvisouly acclompished with flying colors. Come and join in our discussion. Get to know the people you are calling untalented auto salesman, and see if when you are done you still think of us as selfish, greedy self centered folks, who only have their own self intrest at heart. A dicussion is all it is at this point. If the idea gets far, and you still disagree. Then bash it all you want. Our group already stated that we want a private dicussion, you are trying to bash us in a public forum, not very nice. Maybe somebody can make comments on your moral judgement and nature for doing so, but that is not in our nature, so we cannot comment on that. I have already responded to your post in Mike's yahoo chat group. Anybody who is intrested, should go there and comment. You can find my post as well as others at http://groups.yahoo.com/group/meteoriteworkinggroup/ Have a Great Day! John Higgins
----- Original Message ---- From: Mr EMan <mstrema...@yahoo.com> To: valpar...@aol.com; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com Sent: Friday, December 26, 2008 2:47:31 AM Subject: [meteorite-list] Alternative Meteorite Group Track Records Hello Folks-- Season's greetings. I just wanted to share some thoughts on forming new meteorite interest groups--past empire building in the meteorite world in general and why some succeeded and some failed. Please, no one take this as an attack, trolling,disparagement, discouragement, or a "dissing" of anyone. It is not directed at any one, although it may have been bumped to the forefront by Mike's recent thread. An honest idea was proposed and I am not per se addressing his proposal in any way so please keep an open mind. On this list we are as close as can be to inclusive(99%) in having a collection of members within the existing meteorite interest niches. As a long time member with observations regarding "empire building" as an alternative to the Meteorite Central list, The Meteorite Times web space, IMCA, etc. there have been a plenty. I could list a long string of people who wanted to make a big splash campaigning to improve/perfect the culture they did not remotely understand. In spite of -- or because of--self caused blunders, there were many patient old timers willing to advise them on how to get oriented to the list rather than making the list fit around them. They tried to help them get up to speed and direction with the technical side, the meteorite market, and the meteorite culture often being rebuffed, accused of trying to squash competition, or rejected as not knowing what they were talking about. What was hard for some novices to accept was that their own mindset was the reason they were unable to make inroads into the community as a true mover/shaker. There were many more that took the help and are strong respected contributors today. Not wanting to get in their way, the long-time members stepped aside, letting them fall into craters of their own making--some many times over. Many, many, times we have seen Internet/ web page savvy folks offer to provide "alternatives " to the meteorite forum communities. For the majority of those past forums, I'd have to look hard to see if they were still around. Some were more noble than others. There were some who spend a lot of effort making dust clouds promoting a solution looking for a problem. When the dust settled they sat wondering what went wrong and why their enterprise/forum/ efforts failed to hold attention. Just in passing, there are several meteorite interest groups/ mailing lists: some active but with only duplicate postings, some are inactive/abandoned with only newbie postings who never bothered to look at the membership numbers or posting activity, some private technical lists which are by invitation only, and of course-- the dealer's own list where ads go directly to the member. For reasons beyond the scope of this babbling of mine, 99% of all the inhabitable niches for this hobby have been taken and are being served well by the host. There is a saturation point and economy-of-scale even in this field of interest. In the words of a frequent poster "it is a free county" so anyone coould feel free to start up all the groups or forums they wish--the Internet is a very large place. Those that offer a truly unique and desirable service will last and those that are offering another way to slice up the limited pie won't-- and will end up on the ash pile of Internet redundancy entirely on their own. Those that did succeed, did so by offering real value and in an unselfish manner within many many manhours and personal expense to do so. What I found is that people who take shortcuts don't succeed: those who rely too much on assumptions, those that don't take a thoughtful look at the true market for their service, those that overestimate their expertise and time committment, those that don't attempt a basic understanding of the meteorite science to understand the commodity. Basically those who arrive thinking their personal marketing talents will overcome technical, knowledge, and cultural issues-- don't last over the long haul. Perhaps potential members are jaded by all the flash-in-the night sky "dealers" so they come to accept those proven members only after a long time of watching how they behave. I don't know of any shortcut to this period of watching and slowly winning people over. This community isn't a automobile dealership, it isn't a church, it isn't the Elks, it isn't a group of folks with a lot of mandated loyalty--it is a field where you are known by your reputation--reputation means everything to the majority of people. You can't forge (as in fake ) those credentials ; you have to forge them (as in earn them) by hard work over time. That seems to be the final obstacle to work through by those offering an alternative folks are willing sign up for. I've probably been ignored, filtered, and moderated over the years more than 99% of the folks here so I I feel like I know much of the list from both sides. I do wish any and everyone who is willing to go it for the long haul the best of success. If you promote it for the love of meteorites instead the love of self then you'll have a better shot at long term success. Elton ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list ______________________________________________ http://www.meteoritecentral.com Meteorite-list mailing list Meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com http://six.pairlist.net/mailman/listinfo/meteorite-list
