Martin,
Here is the response I received from the seller on eBay;
Dear meteoritemax,
Hello Carl,
My proof is only the Grumman fellow's word, and the feeling of my friend the
Planetary geologist. It is definatley rock, not resin. If you met the engineer
before he dies, and saw the amount of NASA related stuff he had, and the fact
the he had ne reason to lie, escpecially by tellin me to not tell any one where
I got it from, tells me the story is real. Since I have no documentation, well,
I doubt that it will sell. it is real, and if I could prove it, well, priceless
really...thanks for the interest...JIM
Obviously, he is not going to convince anybody he has a real moon rock.
Martin, I ask questions of this list because of people like you that have way
more experience than I have.
Normally I get really great info. Some of the time I get info that is less than
great. So, I try to sort it out myself.
In America possession is roughly nine-tenths of the law. ( One of my favorite
people ever, John Lennon says nine-tenths of the law is nine-tenths of the
problem) We even have something called the statute of limitations which only
recognizes violations of the law for seven years for certain things. . So,
after that *technically* things revert back to legal again.
I am not a lawyer so, I am not offering any legal advise. I am just saying that
here in the United States we don't like to treat our citizens as they are
sometimes treated in other countries.
For example some countries simply declare something a national treasure and
*Nationalize it* and it automatically becomes the property of the Government.
In Mexico they do this for many many things from oil to banks, to gems and
minerals and as bazaar as this sounds. They even *Nationalize* artists and
their works of art. People who own original paintings by these artists loose
ownership on the whim of the Government.
I would like to think that the US would continue to determine these matters by
trial in court. Not some arbitrary decision made by our lame Congress or some
thug like the IRS barging in and taking what they want. I have full confidence
in our judicial system so, am looking at them for this because my friend that
has this example like the one Phil sites does not know what to do with theirs.
And I would consider buying it if and only if I know it is legal to do so.
Thanks as always for your posts . Again, I just want to know. Elton says he
wrote NASA for the details so I'm sure he will let us know what he finds out.
Best regards,
Carl
- flyin-junkie
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax
---- Martin Altmann <altm...@meteorite-martin.de> wrote:
> Hi Carl,
That isn't the question, because:
In most states of laws,
the transfer of ownership can only happen, if a person acquires a thing from a
person, who was the rightful owner before.
So it's not the question of import laws, if the sample of Honduras was stolen.
Or whether a sample can be authenticated to be from the Apollo missions.
Neither your strange manager, if his supposed Apollo piece is real, if he
received it not officially from the government of the United States, even not
if the president himself had given it to him, is an owner,
neither the ebay-clown is an owner, if an NASA-employee "unofficially" as he
writes had given an Apollo sample to that other guy because he got a daughter.
(Hey how many workers were occupied with the Apollo project and how many of
them became father... I guess, we have to send a lot of astronauts more to the
Moon, if they all should get a piece).
And come on, Carl,
None of us could even think about selling a REAL rock from Moon,
if we hadn't something better to state, than... yah a friend of mine got once
something from another friend, who was once working there and there, and from
this working place he unofficially took something, and now, I showed it to
someone, who said, oh it's from Moon. And because I'm so modest, I ask not 10k$
but only 5k$ from you and ebay is the right place to offer it.
Good morning!
Ridiculous.
And btw. I guess there is no long-term-meteorite-dealer on this list, who
hadn't received yet offers from various sides to buy "authentic" Apollo and
Luna-material.
In these old movies from the 1930ies, the jerks sell always the Brooklyn bridge
to stupid immigrants...
But quiet now,
I have to make the purchase of my lifetime now.
"This meteorite containing iron might be from Diablo Crater in Arizona.
http://www.meteorite.com/meteor_crater/
most likely contains Iron 92%, Nickel 7.1%, Cobalt .50%, Gallium 80 ppm,*
Germanium 320ppm, Iridium 2ppm, Platinum 8ppm.results may vary or be
none-existent item may contain unknown minerals
the meteorite has weird cracks which most likely took place outside the solar
system"
Yah if the seller says so, it must be the real McCoy,
He asks only $751,200.00 for that cool piece of 1 inch diameter.
Or shall I maybe take that first U.S.-Lunar?
The description sounds more convincing:
"I found this in my rock collection, stuff from about 15-20 years ago. I’ve
strained to recall where I got it, but it is just a stray from one of my 3
trips in the 90’s, all in the US, but unfortunately all thrown into one box. I
do know that none of these trips were to breccia fields, I was hunting
artifacts at the time. It may have been in Texas.
It has an UNCANNY RESEMBLANCE to a few Dhofars, wouldn’t you say?!?
This stone has a very faint magnetic spot near that beautiful top clast! (N40
magnet found it; one photo shows it barely holding there). Of course, NO
BRECCIAS from earth look like this. They have much more gravity to their order
than this."
And:
"The price-setting is as it should be for a truly anomalous stone from the
United States of America, that can for now visually pair with the Dhofar set."
Right so. It has 17 grams and costs only 0,75 million $.
Ooooh, the Campell County Gillette meteorite is reduced this week, from 150k$
to only 111k$.
"This thing is huge and weighs probably close to 60 pounds. It is
approximately 18" wide, 8" high, and 12" across. My late father found it on the
160-acre homesteaded ranch near Gillette, Wyoming. The title to the property
read the name of the Indian chief, the United States Government, and then his
folk's name, seriously. Anyway, while wandering every acre in his youth, he
found a cigar box full of original arrowheads. And some rattlesnake rattles.
And this rock. It was part of a larger group of similar rocks, burrowed into
the landscape. I do not know a meteorite from a parking-meter, so you experts
help me out. What is this? How much is it worth? It remains unauthenticated
and unclassified. Should I take it to the Colorado School of Mines? To whom?
It is priced arbitrarily, based on the show from the History Channel."
And RARE CERTIFIED MARTHA'S VINEYARD, MASS. METEORITE
DOCUMENTED AND CERTIFIED RARE METEORITE
Is getting cheaper every month, now only 11,600$.
"A FUSION CRUST OUTER PIECE OF THE "MARTHA'S VINEYARD METEORITE FALL". IT IS
DOCUMENTED AND CERTIFIED AND IS INSURABLE. FOUND ON THE VINEYARD IN 2005 THIS
PIECE CONTAINS 54 EARTH ELEMENTS AND HAS BEEN CERTIFIED BY A HARVARD
MINERALOLOGIST. IT WOULD MAKE ONE OF THE RAREST AND MOST EXPENSIVE PAPERWEIGHTS
OF EVER. A TEN PAGE CERTIFIED SUMMARY REPORT IS INCLUDED IN THE SALE. NOT
SHOWN. WEIGHT 237 G, DENSITY 4.21"
That is more convincing than the Apollo rock description.
Good night!
Martin
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: cdtuc...@cox.net [mailto:cdtuc...@cox.net]
Gesendet: Samstag, 5. Februar 2011 01:28
An: Martin Altmann; meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
Betreff: Re: [meteorite-list] Apollo Moon rock sample on eBay?
Martin,
Had you been following this thread you would know that their has yet to be a
court case to determine whether a private individual may or may not legally own
an Apollo lunar rock. Steve and Phil have both pointed out such cases where
two different people have claimed to own and tried to sell their Lunar
material. One lost the case on the basis of import laws and the other on the
basis that they could not analysis the rock in resin so, they still got to keep
their rock.
In addition I have personally seen yet another of these resin examples owned by
a retired Raytheon manager. I have held it in my own hands. To bad I did not
carry a camera at the time. But it does exist. It has also been stated that
their are no records of these giveaways. Who knows how many of them are out
there.
So, there is nothing plain and simple about it. Yet.
sorry.
Carl
--
Carl or Debbie Esparza
Meteoritemax
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