From: Jason Utas <meteorite...@gmail.com>
Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] changed to: Trials and Tribulations We'll Be
living With For a While
To: "Meteorite-list" <meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com>
Date: Tuesday, February 22, 2011, 12:17 PM
Greg, All,
Since the money is apparently not being made, unless you
can propose
some new marketing method whereby Steve could sell all of
the finds in
a reasonable amount of time, I see returning 25% of them as
a fair
compromise. The impression I got from watching that
video was that
the farmer was angry at having trusted Steve with all of
the
meteorites that were on his land -- that were now gone, and
that he
didn't think he would be paid for. He said it
repeatedly - if you
have them, don't let them go. Yes the farmer wanted
his 25%, but I
have little doubt that he would appreciate the prompt
return of 25% of
the rocks found on his land -- versus a payout that might
not come for
decades. If they would be unhappy with such an
agreement, why not up
their percentage slightly to compensate? As bad as it
sounds to say
this, it's not like the material is selling, after
all. Given what
was said by both parties in the video, I believe we can
assume this to
be true...
Regards,
Jason
On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 8:57 AM, Thunder Stone <stanleygr...@hotmail.com>
wrote:
>
> All:
>
> In the video I get the sence that the landowner is mad
because he was promised a lot of money (I don't think he
wants his rocks back) he just wants the money he was
promosed; whether it is right or wrong, I think that is the
reason for him being angry and going to the media. I think
the best solution is to find the best way to market these
meteorites and sell them and get the money to the
landowners.
>
> Greg S.
>
> ----------------------------------------
>> Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 08:47:02 -0800
>> From: meteorite...@gmail.com
>> To: meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>> Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] changed to: Trials
and Tribulations We'll Be living With For a While
>>
>> Wouldn't the signed contracts dictate that Steve
only return 25% of
>> what was found? Since the agreement was 25/75
(mentioned in the
>> video), the issue, it seems, could be entirely
settled if Steve turned
>> 25% of the finds over to the landowners. If the
money's not there, it
>> seems to me like that would be the quickest and
easiest means of
>> settling the dispute.
>> Unless there's some reason for Steve to hold on to
it all even though
>> he can't sell it at present...that would seem to
be the easiest
>> solution. I see no reason not to do that, aside
from the fact that
>> the farmers wouldn't necessarily be getting money
for their rocks.
>> But since it doesn't look like they're getting any
anyway, at least
>> they'd have less reason to think they'd been
cheated, which is clearly
>> the case given what was said in the video.
>> Jason
>>
>>
>>
>> On Tue, Feb 22, 2011 at 8:38 AM, wrote:
>> > Bill, Phil, list,
>> > It sounds like you and Phil are saying the
same thing. Albeit in totally diligent ways. I hate to say
this but many of us agree with both of you.
>> > Since Picasso, tiffany's and Lindsay Lohan
are not too likely to become partners in this venture. The
venture may indeed turn out to be a flop.
>> > I said it earlier that I know Steve has tried
marketing these space gems. But, it sounds like what I am
hearing is that time is ticking and since the de Beers had
two things lacking here. Mega bucks and a monopoly on
virtually all of the worlds diamond caches.
>> > This seems to NOT be the case with Steve and
his cartel.
>> > By Steve's own admission the money is tight.
Others are already competing for sales of these gems that
they possess. And nobody is buying them.
>> > Who could blame them? The potential for fake
stones is uncontrollable. Everything on the planet is being
faked today and when you can fake something with as little
as a piece of paper. Well, this is simply to easy to fake.
With trust now at the forefront, how do we know these stones
came from meteorites? Please. I trust Steve and know him to
be honest but, you cannot depend on that in the real world.
>> > I feel for this whole group because as I said
before they are all good people but, unless De Beers bails
them out or they change the game plan and sell meteorites.
Nothing short of a miracle is going to save this venture.
>> > They say in Hollywood that any press is good
press so. this may be good for the show but looking at the
big picture. IMHO this should end as quickly as possible.
>> > Carl
>> > Carl or Debbie Esparza
>> > Meteoritemax
>> >
>> >
>> > ---- bill kies wrote:
>> >>
>> >> Steve,
>> >>
>> >> If I'm correct, you're saying the deal
was a flop and everyone has to take a gig. Disclaimers like
this might help divert blame in the business world but where
does this leave humble collectors with no agenda other than
the desire to pick up a few space rocks when the rare
opportunity presents itself? Surely you remember those days,
even though you aren't a collector, as they were not all
that long ago.
>> >>
>> >> Maybe you should return all the material
you can. Try to make these people happy and live up to the
respect you convinced them you were worthy of.
>> >>
>> >> Bill
>> >>
>> >>
>> >> > To: altm...@meteorite-martin.de;
meteorite-list-boun...@meteoritecentral.com;
meteorite-list@meteoritecentral.com
>> >> > From: meteorh...@aol.com
>> >> > Date: Tue, 22 Feb 2011 04:26:35
+0000
>> >> > Subject: Re: [meteorite-list] The
Trials and Tribulations in Dealing withLando wners
>> >> >
>> >> > Hello List,
>> >> >
>> >> > Wow, what an outpouring of comments
today.
>> >> >
>> >> > Let me bring all of you up to speed
on this.
>> >> >
>> >> > Five years ago, I partnered with
around 10 or so friends and they combined some money, and I
offered up some time and we started hunting for meteorites
together. We choose to go to a certain location in Kansas
where pallasites had been found in the past.
>> >> >
>> >> > We chose this location after I had
my success locating some pallasite meteorites at the Brenham
strewnfield.
>> >> > We got land leases to hunt, without
any promise of any big money, no talk of Millions, or
thousands or even hundreds of dollars to anyone. We just
started hunting and we started finding meteorites. Some of
my friends, at least 8 of us in the group, were very
connected meteorite dealers and we decided to try to sell
some of our finds, we tried and we tried and we tried, and
we sold one meteorite. We contacted virtually all the
institutions with notable meteorite collections and none of
them wanted to either buy or to trade for any of our
specimens. The one sale was made, and the land owner from
where this meteorite came from got his contracted percentage
royalty, and he was VERY pleased. It was truly money from
heaven for him.
>> >> >
>> >> > The meteorites from this particular
location have the reputation of being the worst rusting
meteorites known to man. Far worse than Campo, Nantan,
Brenham or any other "ruster" one can think of. So we could
understand why no one wanted to buy any more of this
meteorite. It was just too big of a risk for people to
take.
>> >> >
>> >> > As we kept finding more and more
meteorites, we were challenged with the supply and demand
issue. Much supply, virtually no demand. Not a good
outlook.
>> >> >
>> >> > Then one of the dealers in the group
reminded us of the high quality gemstones that had been
faceted from the peridot in this meteorite. So we took the
specimen in the worst condition out of our inventory and
practiced trying to free up some of the olivine that was in
it, and sure enough, there were some amazing gemstones
produced.
>> >> >
>> >> > A year and a half ago, we went to
all the land owners where we had found meteorites and told
them that if we would liquidate all the meteorites we found,
we probably would only get $0.10 or $0.15 per gram. But we
felt that as gemstones, we could make more money for
everyone.
>> >> >
>> >> > We decided to incorporate our
partnership as Palladot Inc, a Kansas corporation, that
focused on selling meteorites, mostly in gemstone format.
>> >> > I am the President, and Jason
Phillips is our C.E.O.. We hired Charles Ellias, who is a
graduate gemologist with 25 years of experience in the color
gemstone market, to manage our operations, including
overseeing the faceting, grading and pricing and marketing
of the gemstones.
>> >> >
>> >> > Our original contract only promised
the landowners that they would earn their royalty on the
"wholesale" sale of the meteorites. We told all the land
owners we wanted to pursue the gemstone market as there was
very little demand in the meteorite world for the specimens
as meteorites. It was one of the landowners that actually
suggested "pooling" all of the royalties together, so we
wouldn't have to melt down every meteorite, and this way all
the landowners could still share proportionately by their
contribution in the profits.
>> >> >
>> >> > It was at that point, that in the
spirit of full discloser, we explained how the gemstone
market gave us the best up-side potential for earnings. If a
market could be built for these most amazing and rare
gemstones with a fascinating story, then we would have the
supply to fill the demand created. And yes, IF there would
be millions of dollars of demand created, we would have
millions of dollars of gems.
>> >> >
>> >> > All of the land owners, except for
one, agreed to pool their royalty interest together and join
us in the gem market.
>> >> > The one landowner that didn't want
to go to the gem business with us, was happy to take his
portion "in kind" and we gave him his meteorites. All the
others signed a new agreement that pooled their royalties
together.
>> >> >
>> >> > One year ago this month, we started
selling Palldot Pallasitic Peridot gemstones at the Tucson
show (specificially at the Pueblo Show at the Executive
Inn.) It seems we chose the worst year, economically
speaking, since the Great Depression to start a
business...not to mention, a business in the luxury jewelry
market.
>> >> > But we still made some sales, and
our business is growing.
>> >> >
>> >> > Now, back a year and a half ago, the
deal we made was that we would share the royalty to the
landowners based on the retail profits rather than on the
wholesale sales. The landowner who was featured in this
local TV story we are all talking about, actually had his
attorney look over the new pooling agreement. In fact, his
attorney made some suggestions to alter it, and we agreed to
his suggested changes.
>> >> >
>> >> > There NEVER was any promise of
"getting rich quick." Never. Getting rich over time...maybe,
if we played our cards right.
>> >> >
>> >> > But we did state that the sale of
just a few gemstones could yield more money than the whole
meteorite could fetch on its own.
>> >> >
>> >> > So, for the last several months,
this one landowner has been trying to get Jason and me to
"alter his contract." If it were just a matter of making him
happy, there wouldn't be a problem. BUT there are ALL the
other landowners that we are in binding contracts with. We
would make the others very mad if we gave into this one
man's demands at their expense.
>> >> >
>> >> > Of course, if we were in breach of
contract, there would be legal remedies this man could take.
But we aren't in breach of the contract so he chose to
threaten us with going to the investigative reporter at a TV
station with his story. We discussed some options that we
could offer him, and still keep the other land owners happy,
but they were not what he wanted, so he went to the reporter
anyway.
>> >> >
>> >> > At the start, I think the reporter
thought there was this huge story, but I spent nearly two
hours of interviews with her, and when she heard my side,
the only thing she had left for her story was that this one
landowner was "not happy" that he hadn't seen any profits
yet.
>> >> >
>> >> > Well, I am "not happy" that we
haven't seen any profits either!
>> >> >
>> >> > But we are doing the best we can.
>> >> >
>> >> > We are making sales, and when there
are profits, the stockholders will get dividends and the
landowners will get royalties.
>> >> >
>> >> > We have invested over $100,000 and
somewhere north of 3,000 man hours into this one project.
This landowner has invested zero dollars, and zero hours.
There are a lot of other people that have far more invested,
and we ALL want to see a return. He will be entitled to his
share when profits are generated just as he agreed to a year
and a half ago.
>> >> >
>> >> > Now, let me also remind you that
news reporters don't care about telling the whole story.
They only had a few minutes for the segment, and while I
share all of this with the reporter, she (and her editors)
decided to run the story for ratings purposes. Because,
everyone I have talked to said this really is a "non-story."
Millions of people everyday are not happy with contracts
they entered into in the past. It isn't news. Nowhere in the
contract does it say that each landowner "has to be happy."
In fact, that is why you have contracts, because,
inevitably, people often become less than happy with the
deals they struck over time.
>> >> >
>> >> > Meanwhile, we have an obligation to
our shareholders, and to the landowners to press on and do
our best to make all of us as much money as we can. It might
be sad if what we are doing was hurting science, but to be
honest, if there wasn't the potential for profit with the
gemstones, we would have quit hunting a long time ago, and a
lot of these rocks would still be underground rusting away
anyway.
>> >> >
>> >> > I know this explanation won't make
everyone happy, but I have learned a long time ago that it
isn't my job to make everyone happy.
>> >> >
>> >> > I just do the best I can with the
hand I am dealt.
>> >> >
>> >> > Feel free to contact me off the list
if you have any further questions.
>> >> >
>> >> > Steve Arnold
>> >> > President, Palladot Inc
>> >> > Co-Host Meteorite Men
>> >> > ArnoldMeteorites.com
>> >> >
>> >> > Sent from my Verizon Wireless
BlackBerry
>> >> >
______________________________________________
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>> >>
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