----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael E. Senack" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> To: "Larry Hoke" <[EMAIL PROTECTED]>; <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Cc: <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> Sent: Friday, June 09, 2000 12:42 AM Subject: Re: [mfg-smartcam] Dead Product
> Wow wee what a response! Look here Sparkie, I have been programming since > 1978 using good old APT and then in 1989 started with SmartCAM V4.5 which by > the way is what I am still using to program with. My bottom line depends on > one thing only. Satisfying my customer's demands. My customers are a > collection of JOB SHOPS where their customers comes to them with a CAD print > or a HAND DRAWN print or a FAX or a HAND DRAWN SKETCH on a piece of graph > paper. Then they say I need this many of these pieces by this date. Then my > customers says to me I need a program like now! I fail to see your "More > and more > customers are wanting things SmartCAM and other 'hobby cam packages can > never offer - associatively of NC programs to engineering geometry." logic > here because, guess what? If I do not get the required program(s) by the > required date(s) then my customer's spindles are not turning. Therefore, my > customer will goto programmer X next door and say I need these programs now. > And guess what I am out of work! See the connection here SPEED=MONEY. > > Just the other week I was at one of my customer's job shop which has 3 > vertical mills, 2 vertical lathes, 1 horizontal lathe and a 4-axis > horizontal > mill. This customer was getting another programmer to make lathe programs > using Compact II on a 486 computer with an EGA monitor. Yes these computers > still exsist. This other > programmer was helping my customer setup a line of work from his now "DOWN > SIZED" large unionized job shop, which by the way he had worked there for 19 > years. A down turn in sales and it was pack up this plant and move all > operations to this non-unionized more profitable plant. Except for this line > which you SUB CONTRACT to a > smaller local jobbing shop and leave one person in charge in a tiny office > to over see the line. Anyway, you know what? I could not compete with him > when it came to changing from one Similar lathe part to another. A quick > edit of Compact source code here, re post process and a new program in just > seconds! No "intense engineering data " here buck wheat just raw NC code > going directly into the lathe using ProComm through a manual switch box. > Bottom > line... TIME which equals customer satisfaction which equals MONEY!!! That > is why you have a thousands and thousands of job shops on every corner > competing. To make money. > > However, I do work for a large company that uses ELECTRONIC data to > manufacture components. In the good old days a typical job would require 3 > to 4 hours of manual input from a print to get to the point where you can > start to layout your tools and only then begin to make a program. The 3 to 4 > hours is now gone because, this company uses "intense engineering data" > because it makes its OWN products. I had an agreement between us > stating that if they provide me with electronic data and the part was wrong > because some designer changed a dimension but not the data then it was there > problem. As you know electronic data is only as good as the person whom is > drawing it. That is why a good designer should start from the job shop level > and > work his/her way up the Designer/Engineer status. Not take College and/or > University > courses and then say I am a Designer/Enginner! I don't know about how things are in your neck of the woods, but where I am at they are always the ones who are first in line to get laid off when things get a bit slow and always the last to get hired. I guess that explains why the guy with the most degrees goes through 25 shops in 15 years. But then what do I know, I never went to college. Just the School of Hands On Training. Good school and it still exists. Jeff Guse > > Just my two cents here... > > -----Original Message----- > From: Larry Hoke <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > To: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Cc: '[EMAIL PROTECTED]' <[EMAIL PROTECTED]> > Date: Thursday, June 08, 2000 4:08 PM > Subject: [mfg-smartcam] Dead Product > > > >To all SmartCAM users: > > > >I have been following the lament that SmartCAM is dead; SmartCAM is the > >best thing since sliced bread; and why can't SDRC do something to support > >it, with increasing annoyance. To all of you I say, "Grow up!! SmartCAM is > >dead - move on!!" > > > >If you all want to collectively go crawl into a corner and cry about how > >SmartCAM is dead and no one wants to support it then go ahead. The ones > >who understand life, will leave you in the dust to rot. There have been > >many good things in life that have died only to be replaced by something > >better. Such is the case with SmartCAM. > > > >The '39 Ford coupe was a good car, but it was replaced by newer technology. > > The B-17 was a good war plane but it was replaced by newer technology. > > COMPACT-II was a very good lathe package - it died and was replaced by > >newer technology. APT was (and still is) a good product, but there are a > >hell of a lot of products that are better. SmartCAM was good but it too > >will be replaced. > > > >None of you have a clue to life about technology. SDRC made a very sound > >business decision to stop supporting that particular technology. And to me > >it was for a very good reason. More and more customers are wanting things > >SmartCAM and other 'hobby cam packages can never offer - associativity of > >NC programs to engineering geometry. If engineering changes the NC > >automatically updates. Your hobby cam packages simply don't have the horse > >power to build, support, and handle the intense engineering data being > >created these days. > > > >That is why SDRC, Dassualt/IBM, Unigraphics, and PTC are investing millions > >to create associated data bases from design to manufacturing. That is why > >they are building NC packages that allow users to capture frequently used > >data and reuse it on other jobs. None of your hobby cam packages have a > >snow balls chance in hell of doing that. Having to pass data from a major > >system to hobby cam looses all of that. > > > >The statement made recently about being able to learn SmartCAM in three > >days is absolutely ridiculous. My company inherited several hundred > >SmartCAM programs, and decided to try to train someone to use the SmartCAM > >seat we also inherited. After two weeks of hands on training by a local > >user, we are no farther along with SmartCAM than we were before. Yes we > >can make some programs. Yes we can generate some code. But no we are not > >proficient enough after two weeks to be able to handle all of the > >programming situations that arise on a daily basis. > > > >I have been in this business since 1966, and have never seen any > >programming system that could be learned in 3 days. It hasn't existed in > >34 years, and I don't see it in the near horizon. And that goes for APT, > >UCC-APT, Westinghouse CIN-TURN macro package, LATHESEQ, CADAM NC, and CATIA > >NC. Each package had/has it's strengths and weaknesses. You don't sit in > >a corner and cry about not being able to do your job because it doesn't run > >like I want it to. You get your ass in gear and make it work to the best > >of it's ability, and learn how to work around the faults. And that > >philosophy will never change my friends. > > > >If you put any well trained, seasoned operator (such as Mr. Lazarus) on any > >system, he/she will be able to make it dance an Irish jig and whistle Dixie > >at the same time. The complaints about long training on new systems are > >unfounded and basically "crying in your beer." You had to invest time in > >SmartCAM - so will you on a new system. > > > >As far as those programs we inherited goes - they are absolute junk. And > >this guy supposedly had three years experience in programming. Every > >program is being converted to CATIA as they come up for re-run. So it goes > >to say, it's not totally the package being good or bad. It's the > >experience of the people, and how willing they are to invest the time in > >learning new skills and making things work to the best advantage possible. > > Something you SmartCAM folks seem dead set against doing. > > > >Instead of complaining about the lack of support and how much you are going > >to miss SmartCAM, why don't you form a for real users group, or some other > >type of organization, and go to SDRC and say, "Look folks, we like what > >SmartCAM could do. We understand your decision to kill SmartCAM, but we > >would like to work with you in trying to implement some of the SmartCAM > >features into your new product, if possible." And you know what, with SDRC > >being reasonable most of the time, they probably would be receptive to that > >idea. > > > >At least they would be more receptive to that than everyone throwing rocks > >at their windows, and telling them how arrogant you think they are. Your > >recent attacks and attitudes are similar to the NRA who doesn't have a clue > >as to how to win friends and influence enemies. > > > >Or maybe better yet, if there is an entrepreneur among you, why don't you > >put together a group of investors and buy the code from SDRC? Then you can > >do any damn thing you want with it. > > > >The bottom line is - SmartCAM truly is dead. Get a life and move on. If > >you want to stay in the Mom and Pop shop mode where hobby cam products are > >the only ones you can afford, then go buy a new one, learn how to use it > >and shut up. You would be suprised what you can do if you just try. > > > >Larry M. Hoke > > > >====================================================================== > >To find out more about this mailing list including how to unsubscribe, > >send the message "info mfg-smartcam" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > >====================================================================== > > > ====================================================================== > To find out more about this mailing list including how to unsubscribe, > send the message "info mfg-smartcam" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] > ====================================================================== ====================================================================== To find out more about this mailing list including how to unsubscribe, send the message "info mfg-smartcam" to [EMAIL PROTECTED] ======================================================================
